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The Owen Jones Podcast

Noam Chomsky on Ukraine and nuclear armageddon

The Owen Jones Podcast

Owen Jones

Politics, Government, News & Politics, News

4.41.4K Ratings

🗓️ 12 May 2022

⏱️ 68 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Noam Chomsky is one of the world's pre-eminent intellectuals, and an icon of dissent going back literally generations. I speak to him about Russia's invasion of Ukraine, and what anti-war activists should be saying. What does he think about the role of NATO? Should the left supporting arming Ukraine on the basis this is a naked war of aggression? What are Russia's war aims? What would a peace deal look like in these circumstances - and how would it last? And most of all - does he think a nuclear war is possible?


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Transcript

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0:00.0

No, I'm a massive honor to have you joining us again. So thank you so, so much

0:06.6

my pleasure

0:08.6

Let's die straight in

0:10.9

Keir Starmer Sir Keir Starmer leader of the Labour Party

0:16.2

became leader on a program you could describe as

0:20.6

Corbinism without Corbin, but now his leadership could be best described as

0:28.0

Blaireism without Blair. So I'm just curious about your own reflections on Keir Starmer's

0:36.7

leadership and what it represents politically.

0:41.8

I think, frankly, he's destroying the Labour Party. In fact, the most

0:48.1

since you mentioned Corbin, his most remarkable

0:55.8

comment in recent days has been to virtually expel

1:02.7

Corbin from the Labour Party because Corbin took positions

1:09.8

which in fact are not very different from those of

1:15.3

President George H.W. Bush in the early 90s. What Corbin said was that after the Ukraine

1:28.5

problem is settled one way or another, we should begin to rethink whether military alliances

1:37.3

are the proper way to deal with international affairs. Very dangerous comment.

1:45.8

Go back to the early 90s. The collapse of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev, of course,

1:53.7

proposed the European common home, no military alliances, accommodation.

2:01.4

And George Bush, this is the first Bush, had a position which was not that different.

2:11.5

He proposed what he called a partnership for peace. Of course, Bush adhered to the firm

2:21.5

unambiguous promise that he had made the Gorbachev, that NATO would not extend beyond Germany.

2:30.4

He adhered to that completely Clinton later, toward it, up, toward it up.

...

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