Hi, this is Hope. This is Perrine. Hi, this is Katie from Washington, DC and you're listening to me at the radio.

Anna Pippus, thank you so much for joining us this afternoon and being willing to share your story.

Of course, you are known for easyanimalfree.com, the author, the photographer, the chef behind all these wonderful treats that you create and an awesome blog.

And you have a background in farmed animal protection law and legal work and also a background in psychology.

So I think you are uniquely set or you're uniquely capable of having a very interesting conversation about why people are going plant based what's stopping them and what might accelerate things, you know, because so much of what we eat is a legal matter.

Most people don't don't realize so I'm super excited to get into to all of that. Thank you for joining us.

Thank you so much for having me. It's great to talk to you.

So let's just dig in. I don't know where to start.

What, why don't we, what came first law or animal law, which I assume the animal law came with veganism. So there's a combination of like pick your beginning, like whatever feels right in terms of starting your story and tell us a little bit about it.

Yeah, and that's a great question because I know a lot of people who decide to go to law school because they want to become an animal lawyer.

And that wasn't really my story. I went to law school knowing that I wanted to have a positive impact on the world.

I had a background in psychology and at that time, this is 15 years ago now more than that.

I was working as a social worker. I was a crisis counselor and I was experiencing for myself the ways that law and policy were failing my clients.

So most of my clients were impoverished, were living, were working in sex work, were living very difficult lives.

And I felt that the work that I was doing was really sort of cleaning up problems that if only I could go upstream, maybe I could help prevent them in the first place.

And so that is what turned my perspective on to law in the first place because prior to that, I really hadn't, I didn't know much about lawyers and I didn't know much about law.

But I sort of had this idea that it was a profession that was for people who wanted to make a lot of money or defend criminals or just I really didn't know very much about it.

But I learned about actually from my brother who is a lawyer and was telling me you would love law school.

I was like absolutely not. He said you love practicing law, you make a great lawyer and I was like definitely not never in a million years.

And he's very persuasive as a lawyer.

And he told me all of the different ways that law can be used as an avenue for change.

I suspect now maybe this is more known or maybe it's just that the world that I live in is more knowledgeable about law and policy, but at that time this was really novel information to me.

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