I'm John Baxter with Alejandro Pena Escusa, Venezuelan writer living in exile in Europe.

He's the senior fellow for the Hungarian Center for Fundamental Rights.

Ernesto Arrucho, former foreign minister to the Republic of Brazil.

Ernesto has pointed us to ask Alejandro, your measure of China's influence in South America.

It built that very large port for Peru.

It's used its money to seal two ends of the Panama Canal.

Now at issue with the United States, it's certainly present in investing in Ecuador, especially behind the

previous regimes that sought to win the election they did not. Now we have a report that China

is supplanting Russia for Cuba and as the main benefactor. What is China in the Americas, Alejandro? What is China to freedom fighters such as

yourself? Is it a hostile force? Is it irrelevant? Does its money help or hurt? Thank you.

China has become the first, number one first investor in South America, and probably it would be also the number one first investor in South America and probably it would be also the

number one investor in all Latin America including Mexico if it not was because Mexico

has a special agreement with the United States and therefore there are

invests special investments in

in maquillas, what they call makilas, American companies that build their products

with Mexican, let's say, labor, but that if it wasn't for that, China would be the number one investor in Latin America.

In terms of money, people might think that this is helpful because every investment means

betterment for the population, more jobs, more production, but that's not exactly so.

Why?

Because China conditions those investments to political influence.

And in many cases, those investments are, let's say, of military type,

communication military type like they have in Argentina and in Venezuela,

...