NATO, Trump and 'Article 5%': What are the implications for European security?

The UK in a Changing Europe Podcast

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4.3 • 105 Ratings

🗓️ 4 July 2025

⏱️ 27 minutes

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Summary

Since Donald Trump entered office six months ago, he has cast doubt on the US commitment to the NATO alliance and applied pressure on European countries to increase their defence spending. This dominated June's NATO summit in the Hague which took place during a time of acute global security challenges, from Russia's war in Ukraine to escalating conflict in the Middle East. To explore the complexities of American politics and foreign policy and how it affects Europe, Anand Menon is joined by Constanze Stelzenmüller, a leading expert on German, European, and trans-Atlantic foreign and security policy and strategy and Director of the Center on the United States and Europe at the Brookings Institution. They reflect on the NATO summit and its remarkably brief summit declaration, the transformation of Article V to 'Article 5%', and whether Europeans can both reach the new 5% spending target and spend the money efficiently. They also discuss whether Europe can rely on the US as a security partner, Trump's foreign policy agenda, and the connection between the MAGA right and populist right parties in Europe and ask whether the UK-US relationship is really all that special.

Transcript

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0:00.0	Hi everyone and welcome to this latest episode of the UK Interchanging Europe podcast.
0:10.4	We're talking security today with Constanza Steltsenmuller.
0:14.4	From the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C.,
0:17.1	Constanza is an expert on German, European and transatlantic foreign and security policy,
0:22.2	director of the centre on the United States in Europe and the inaugural holder of the Fritz-Stern
0:27.3	Chair on Germany and Transatlantic Relations at Brookings. Constanza, welcome.
0:33.2	Thank you very much. And will you say that in every second sentence?
0:37.3	Every question, I will address it to you by your full title. So we can get like half a question in.
0:42.2	Very good. Excellent. So, I mean, God, what a time to be studying European security, A. But let's
0:48.8	start with what's just happen, which is the NATO summit. What are your reflections on how the summit
0:53.8	went in the end?
0:55.0	Well, I think this is probably one of the most carefully choreographed international summits in
1:02.0	recent memory, or perhaps ever, and choreographed solely for the purpose of placating one person,
1:10.0	the American president.
1:11.6	By that measure, by that standard, it went well.
1:16.6	By the standards of previous summits, one could have noted that important topics were left out,
1:23.6	that the summit declaration was a tad short and that probably most Europeans, other than the
1:33.3	Secretary General of NATO, could have done with a little bit less, shall we say, sycophancy
1:39.7	towards the American president. I mean, if you take things like summit declaration seriously,
1:45.0	though, I mean, there's the hint of a kind of fundamental change in the nature of the organization
1:49.2	there, isn't there? I mean, Article 5 has suddenly become transactional, the whole five-for-five thing.
1:54.8	And, I mean, yes, I suppose you could count it as a diplomatic accomplishment that Russia is
	...

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