Implausible promises don't win victories.

I'll tell you what happens with impossible promises.

You start with far-fetched resolutions. They're then pickled into a rigid dogma accord.

And you go through the years sticking to that,

outdated, misplaced, irrelevant to the real needs,

and you end in the grotesque chaos of a Labour council, a Labour council hiring taxis to scuttle round

the city handing out redundancy notices to its own workers.

That, of course, was Neil Kinnock, Labour Party Conference, 1985, perhaps one of the most famous political speeches

we've heard in modern times. And I'm delighted that joining me today on more or less the 40th

anniversary of that speech is the man himself. Neil Kinnett, welcome. Thank you very much. Yeah,

thanks. So as part of my prep, and those who know me might roll their eyes at that for this podcast,

I reread the speech and I have to confess rather shamefacedly that I'd forgotten how much there is in this speech

because actually the bit about militant and the bit where you confronted Derek Hatton comes towards the end

and you spend an awful lot of time doing a rather forensic demolition of the Conservatives in power,

don't you? Yes. The things about those leader speeches, you have to cover most of the waterfront

and make it as lively and illuminating as possible

and still get in under an hour.

So I think I managed that.

But can we just talk a bit about that critique of the Conservatives?

And I imagine you remember it.

Well, I made so many critiques of the Tories. I will confess to you,

I haven't looked at the speech for decades. There's no reason why I should. So as we go

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