I'm John Baxter with my colleague Gregory Copley, whose new book Noble State, available now,

and my conversation with Gregory, was very happy to learn about a better day.

We're not in a better day today.

We're in a hope day, and hope is not a plan, so I speculate on Europe.

There is 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine.

What is there in Europe? We have Germany talking about loosening the debt break, or at least suspending the debt break when it comes to defense and maybe infrastructure, boasting that they can

spend up to a trillion dollars before they reach

the limit of over-borrowing that other states around them have achieved.

And that money can be devoted to defense.

I don't just stay in Berlin.

I go to London.

Sir Kirstarmer is saying he's going to increase

defense spending from 2.33 to 2.5, which isn't profound, but he has to find the money.

Other European countries may or may not participate, but I do mention Gregory prominently.

The leaders in Poland have said they might need to acquire, or perhaps

the way they put it was, we can acquire a nuclear weapon. Germany's talked about buying

nuclear weapons from the U.S. All of this in the context of, is NATO a dead letter? Is that

what they're preparing for? Another day. Well, yes, NATO is a dead letter.

We've been saying this on the program for quite a number of years since 1991, that NATO

either has to find a new mission, or it has to reframe itself, or basically it will perish and die.

Now, how can it reframe itself?

Yes, it could reframe itself into a Europe-only capability.

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