It's hard to watch the news and not feel depressed or anxious or miserable or have what I call apocalypse anxiety.

The news will constantly reinforce that feeling, no shade.

And so for me, it's just about providing a counter-narrative which says, okay, even if these things are happening, let's at least find some humor within that reality.

You talked about the George Floyd aftermath, Black Lives Matter. To what extent do you think we are

now in a sort of a backlash to that period? I'm sort of just advocating for a world in which

we're not being knobs to each other. Hello and welcome to waysays to Change the World.

I'm Christian Guru Murphy and this is the podcast in which we talk to extraordinary people

about the big ideas and their lives and the events that have helped shape them.

My guest this week is a satirist who became famous on social media,

but he's now very big on television and is also doing stand-up on stage.

In fact, he's also making serious documentaries, including about his own origins in Zimbabwe,

where he grew up.

Munya Chihuahua, welcome to ways to change the world.

Thank you very much. I'm excited.

How do you want to change the world?

That's a big old question.

But I was thinking about it.

And I would really love us to sort of get back to a time where we're more sort of in touch with our instinctual human empathy.

You know, it's so crazy now just looking at the political and social landscape

and seeing how something as arbitrary as right and wrong have now been sort of re-reskinned

as political opinions. It's so strange to me. You know, the leaders we have in power, the policies

they put out, I think we just need to scale back and go back to a time where we really tap into human

...