Music Good afternoon, Michael Malice here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour. We have with us, I didn't realize this, Mike. It's our 400th episode. We have with us a special returning guest, Mike Cernovich. Mike has been one of the thought leaders of the new right for over a decade. I interviewed you for my book The New Right, which came out, I believe, in 2019. I remember at this point, we I just landed you and I, both spoke at Scott Adams, a celebration of life, Memorial Service, which was really kind of very touching and moving. And I'm glad we all kept it at a high level in a positive way, which is what Scott would have wanted While following him at Cernivish, his book,

Aurela Mindset, Mike, I love talking to you

because you always have unorthodox takes and you make connections other people don't. So even if I disagree with you, I always end up sitting and be like, okay, let me think this through because he's coming from a place where he's pulling back a blindfold and I'm like, now I'm seeing information. You, my perspective was that the 20, 26 midterms

are gonna be disaster for the Republicans. And that 2028, it's not looking for the Republican Party specifically from this one data point, which is Trump beat Officer Harris by 1.5 points. And I don't need to tell you, but the idiots and you're like, oh, popular vote doesn't matter. There's something called correlation. The better the popular better the popular vote the more likely ones in lecker vote And I thought if you get a democrat who's one point better than her which is all of them and a Republican who's one point worse than him Which is all of them the GOP's in trouble You had a very different take and it was very prolonged and now I'm gonna sit here and shut up and give you the mic because you really went into it point by point and I thought it was extremely edifying so the floor is yours sir. Well, I'll give the sensor version a part of the conversation so people don't clip it because the unsensitversion is too easily clipped out of context but when when October 7th happened I said, okay, this is again why you have to avoid getting clip because I feel like we're with Kanye statement. I feel like we're entering a more reasonable discourse on some of these issues. And the Clippers are going to want to try to recreate controversy. But the lesson of October 7th, I think, for a lot of

guys who weren't paying attention politically, or they were kind of like norming Democrats, was that the right we sit around all day, and we just think about Jews all day. That's all we do is, oh, what are What are you up to today?

Oh, we're just, you know, we're sitting around

and we're making charts of who's Jewish and that's like what we do. And a lot of people had really believed it. And then October 7th happened and you were like, oh, wait a minute, these right wing guys are the ones who thought it was bad. And that obviously doesn't mean we agree with the response or everything Israel does. The left wing people are posting memes, Black Lives Matter is this posting memes of people flying in an appair glider and of course there was an infamous tweet. What did you think resistance meant? essays, tweets, vibes and so that was sort of a wake of call where they realized that the rowdy, right or the new right, however you wanna think about it, says a lot of things because we believe in open discourse, but we're still fundamentally pro-civilization and pro-order. So they realized that they were writing maybe with the wrong crowd. So when that happened, I said this was going to be a real problem for the Democrats, because the leftists can't have a reasonable conversation about Israel, because they see everything through the means of oppressor and the oppressed, And Jews are essentially seeing as just evil white people. That's how they code everything. So that happened. I said, okay, well, with October 7th happening, that you don't want to ever say something a tragedy is good or bad for somebody that can be a little, that can be a little glib. But I knew politically that was creating a new sort of constellation on issues. Then of course you had the maha people who were totally neglected, especially during COVID, that Trump and them didn't want to lean into even though in 2020, I said they should. They didn't want to. They finally, the maha coalition kind of forms. And that's what delivered primarily the popular vote. I knew we were going to, well, I didn't know in 2020, three were going to win. But I knew Trump has been on the primary, but I was still iffy on the election. But I knew that in 2024, I knew we were going to win the electoral college. I didn't think we were going to win the popular vote. I wish I could have called that one. I would be retreating myself every day. Look how smart I am. I told you, the popular vote line. I knew we would do the electoral college vote. I wish I could have called that one. I would be retreating myself every day. Look, look how smart I am. I told you the popular vote. I knew we'd do the electoral college vote because you have this, you have this new alliance to people and then others realize that the, all the left, they really are, they really are bad. They don't want to debate the issues on Israel the way the right does. The reason people like me and others would get into like quote unquote so much trouble is we just view everything as up for debate. So we can sit around and is Israel bad? Is it good? What about this? What about that all day? And it does it necessarily mean that we hate them or love them. That's just another thing we talk about, right? That's what we do. And you tried to cover that in your first book. I remember we met in New York. The only reason we met is because we had a mutual friend because I thought, man, I want to sit down and talk to some guy right in a book about the new writing. There's no way anybody can really understand it because it's like a debate. As I just like we're debating I was on the I was so glad that I was on the airplane yesterday with Scott Adams, the celebration of life that we went to because I looked around it. Everybody's talking about the snowstorm in Nashville, weather disruptions, travel disruptions and the rams and Seattle, I think we're playing. No, but meanwhile, we're on X, fearatively, what does the shooting mean for the midterms? What is this? We get sort of spun up because we only touch grass more. And I think touch grass, what a lot of people, you spend a lot of time in X, what I always took that to mean is you have to be out in the world. You have to be in any vandalist of sorts. It doesn't mean touch grass, go to the gym, do your health sprints, but you should do mountain biking, all that. But you got to be in the world and look around what everybody's actually talking about before you think, well, this moment in time is pivotal. And this is really going to impact 2024, 2026, 2028. You got to zoom out a little bit and realize that really isn't the big issue. The big issue still maha. That hasn't changed from 2024. Big issue is still Israel and people finding the new equilibrium is the word I'm looking for because they are finding out, oh yeah, these guys, they'll like, they should talk Israel, but they don't hate it, right? They don't hate it. They're just saying, why can they do this? And we can't do that. Why can you do this? Why? It's more of a sense making discussion than anything else, whereas the left is just loony tunes on this stuff. And then you're seeing, and then people on the right who maybe had bigger prompts with Israel are seeing the correlation of the anti-ice people are all anti-Israel people. So I'm sort of stuck in the middle because I'm not hardcore pro-Israel person at all. But it, obviously, sometimes I get people saying, oh, you got to ease up on Israel or whatever. And I think, well, I don't you ease up on him. I have actually one of the funnier

conversations I had with the person. He goes, man, you're going hard on Israel. And I said, have

you ever seen me talk about net? And yeah, who the way I talk about care, Starmer? I think we we should send a delta to take care of Starmer into custody.

But God helped me.

I posted, I thought the ambulance shooting

was not a good situation and needed

to be investigated and everything.

So. karma into custody, but God helped me. I posted, I thought the ambulance shooting was not a good situation and needed to be investigated and everything. So people are realizing that realignment maybe isn't the right word, but I think people on the right are realizing that the the left is just fully anti civilization, their anti eyes, their anti borders. That's really why they hate Israel. They don't really hate Israel because Israel is just a uniquely bad place. They just see it as all part of it. So then if you're somebody who is maybe a black man kind of type, you realize, oh yeah, they're just gonna line all of us up against the wall. What in the world? They're these, the left people really are anti-order, they're full agents of chaos. And then I think a lot of the maybe hardcore pro-Israel people are realizing that when you make Israel a live wire, all that does is get people, all that does is get the worst about it. Because the people like me think, do I really want to say anything? I'm, I've been yell that enough today. I've been yell that enough. I've hit my quota. So I don't want to defend Israel. I don't really want to attack it. And then that leaves the conversation over for people who are obsessive on either end. So then you have the hardcore pro-Israel people who can be quite alienating to the right or people like me because I think we should be able to talk about anything. And the left is just Israel's evil all the time and they're hitting it. So the so people are realizing okay we got a problem here and by that I mean people like me are also realizing that I'm like man you guys are gonna make me a flag waiver but they entice real size about to make me a flag waiver because They're so hateful. It's just a Neobolchubic kind of movement So you have that you have the maha people who they're getting some ones with arcade junior I don't think they're getting maybe what they deserve. I think they deserve a lot more than what they're getting But they're at least in the room And a lot of the maha people I've been trying to,

because we were right here, I was, I knew all the original quote unquote crazy anti-vax moms, right? I knew all them from get go. I would cover their events to talk to them. People forget, this is again why it's hard to look into 2028. And I believe it was either 2022 or 2023, you'd have to check it. RFK Jr. got nuked from social. He was really? I forgot about this.

The grand bit. Yeah. Because our people, yeah, no, you, you, you, because I, I heard all this, I would get tweets from the, the maha moms. And there's Bobby, Bobby got banned from everything. Dell big tree, banned from everything. You can check the exact date on that he was banned from Instagram everywhere. I'll say he was more or less politically new. And then Nicole Shanahan, Bax's campaign, next thing you know, he's in the mix, censorship, culture changes, there's a lot of flux. And what I think the right or the the magma movement, maha, we met Trump Trump was realizing it's that you, left wing, they're full ideologues. You have to be fully committed to the destruction of America. People on the right, you got to just get used to people not agreeing with you. You got to realize that the maha people, I always tell the moms that you're not going to get everything you want. And when you do things, there's going to be political consequence to it.

You have to make trade-offs. The same thing for people like me, the same thing for the hardcore pro-Israel people. Everyone's realizing for a coalition to work, you're going to have to be around people that you disagree with and you can't just nuke everybody. You can't say, okay, I saw this one clip now. So I have to nuke this person from orbit.

Well, great now you've alienated a political ally who agrees with you enough that you can get winds out of it. And you may be of antagonized someone or you've given people no offers. Everybody has to grow up. And I think it all ties into my my ranting and raving against the the crisis of extended adolescence, right? Which is I lived it to and to some degree and it's a little embarrassing you think. Like I used to go to bars like why in the world was I ever in a bar? Look back with some kind of shame, right? You'd go to a bar and smoke cigarettes and listen to the generate music. And when you're younger, that's one thing. Maybe necessarily I don't agree with it. But you think people are just living that life way too long. Go to Austin. It's kind of like Wonderland for kids still. If you guys are in your 40s, you're the old guy at the bar. Get out of here. Get out of here, right? And for a political coalition to work, everybody just has to be mature. Guess what, there's 10 of you in the room. You have 11 different point of view. Pick your three issues, help everybody win on their issues, try to be likable, try to be a good partner in this, and then nobody's gonna get 100%. But if everybody can get 70%, 80%, don't become too pushy and more or less grow up. Right. So having a parent, I learn more about politics because your kids will bicker to the end over a plastic toy, right? They'll be in the backseat and the car and it's some crappy little, my kids one time gotten a fight over it was, you know, those plastic Easter eggs you get a little poignant. They fought over the Easter egg that was empty. But there are there are each other's throats. And that's a very childish, childish way. And we judge them as children, but then in politics, you're thinking, why are we fighting tooth and nail over this? Why are we at each other's throats over this? Why don't we just all grow up and relax? So you you have you have those forces are Coming together in a lot of different ways. It's a very strong coalition. There's always gonna be hiccups You're always gonna deal with why do you like that guy? And I'm like who cares again. That's like a very childish question Why do you still like? You know selling so I'm not gonna name names, but why do you like? Why are you asking my what I like a person? Are we? Are we a little kid now passing notes in class? Do you like Michael Males? Check yes or check no? And maybe more people, yeah, right. Maybe. I always tell people, like, oh, guys, I don't like myself. Okay. I don't even like me. Yeah.

Like my kids.

I like my wife.

I don't like myself.

So why are you asking me about other people? I like them. I go, I like 80 buddy. Man, let alone me. Cause I'm the wrong guy. Even asking everybody has to grow up a little bit. And I think I think people are growing up. So for 2028, we know it's gonna be nasty. We know the primary is gonna be a nasty thing.

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