Music Good afternoon, Michael Malice here. Let that be your welcome for the next hour, guys. You're in for a real treat, a deer friend of mine, Steven Fishback, two-time survivor contestant. You've been working on this novel, Escape for Years. Too many years, yeah. And I am ecstatic to announce that it is out. I have read it. I am very proud of you. I can recommend it. We're going to be talking about reality CV and the reality behind reality TV because I have a lot of questions. Through you, I've known a lot of people in that survivor space. One of the things I really liked about the beginning of this book is you talk about this whole reality TV ecosystem. I remember as that a party and I think it was through you

and there was a guy from Big Brother and it was that season where Evil Dick was on. Yeah. And I don't remember his name but he was the contestant who the audience was forcing him to do stunts. Oh, the chore Eric's time, America's player. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I felt bad for him because I thought he was like a loser And I went up to talk to him because I felt and he was like really obnoxious to me.

He's like, oh, you think I'm a fan a loser and I went up to talk to him because I felt

and he was like really obnoxious to me.

And like, oh, you think I'm a fan?

You think I actually cared to talk to you and it's very weird because in those rooms, people are super famous and important and I can really think that as a podcaster but on the street, like no one cares. It's this bizarre dichotomy. Talk with the secret system.

Well, first of all, I should defend Eric's time, who actually is like a lovely human being.

And so like, no, no, maybe not at that one point in time, but I don't know.

I don't know.

Um. Can you talk about the sequence system? Well, first of all, I should defend Eric's time who actually is like a lovely human being.

And so like, no, no, maybe not at that one point in time,

but I don't know, I don't know.

He's like a very charming guy. No. But it is true that you, you know. What is your base of saying he's charming? I just, he's like a friend. like my experience with him is that he's charming?

And as you like him.

He's charmed me.

I had charmed me to the point that I'm his friend.

Okay.

But, but you know, you do go into these,

there's this whole like you say,

reality television ecosystem, where you're on the show for six months, suddenly, people are treating you differently, right? Like literally just because you're on television. Like, you're on Survivor, it's not because of any skill you have. You're not like on runaway where you're designing a dress or top chef where you're making food. You're literally just outside and like putting outdoors. Hopefully pooping. Yeah, right. Well, that's right. It's not everybody. But suddenly people do start treating you differently. Your friends do, the people around you do, literally simply because of that fact. And it's very beguiling.

And you start to feel, wow, like this fame thing

is really interesting.

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