Welcome to Off Message. I'm Isaac DeVare.

How much, how much of the iceberg have we seen?

The real answer is, I don't know, but we keep uncovering more bits of ice.

When you see, for example, that Mueller indictment of the 13 Russians, you know about intelligence operations.

Does it strike you that there's a lot more coming?

Yeah. Oh, in my view? Yes. Yes. Today's guest, General Michael

Hayden, a former head of the NSA and CIA under George W. Bush. Have you read the Mueller indictment

of the 13 Russians? If you haven't, you should. It's 37 pages long and pretty plainly written.

It's frightening. But there's a whole lot of stuff flying

back and forth about all the Russian investigations. Too many details to keep track of, too many

names and players and narratives. And over the weekend, when the Democratic memo came out in response

to the Nunes memo, I was asking one of our reporters about something he wrote about it and he told

me that I was mistaking a key detail.

And that's me. I've been following it pretty closely. I get paid to follow pretty closely.

So in trying to understand this, I decided to be a good idea to go to someone who can help

make more sense of it. And since Bob Mueller isn't doing any interviews these days,

I tracked down Michael Hayden at his office a few blocks from the White

House and asked him what to make of all of it. He knows intelligence operations. He knows the

ins and outs of how these things work behind the scenes. Sure, it's been nine years since he's been

at the CIA, but there aren't many people with his level of expertise. It was quite a discussion,

and not all that reassuring about where he thinks we are

in terms of being vulnerable for the 2018 and 2020 elections. Check out the article on the website

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