Hello and welcome to The Spectator podcast. I'm Laura Prendergast and on this week's episode,

we'll be discussing Theresa May's third way. We'll also be looking at whether an Uber for social care

could ever be possible. And finally, we'll be talking about Mies van der Roe's unrealised plans for

a mansion house skyscraper.

First up, forget left and right. The new divide in politics is between nationalism and globalism, says James Forsyth. It explains Brexit, Trump and Marine Le Penh.

And in this week's issue, he suggests that Theresa May is trying to plot a course through this. I'm now joined by James and our editor Fraser Nelson to discuss. So James,

what is this third way? Well, I think if you look at the US presidential election, for instance,

it makes no sense on a left-right scale. You know, first of all, where do you put Donald Trump

on that? On the one hand, he wants to cut taxes. On the other hand, he's against free trade.

But I think why his team think he won is that he was

essentially the nationalist, the America first candidate. And it was his positions on everything from

kind of trade to security, but enabled him to win over traditionally democratic states, such as

Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. I think you can see the same thing playing out in the

French presidential election. Marina Penn is this hybrid of the hard right and the far left and is the kind of nationalist candidate.

She wants to get out of a euro, cut immigration down to 10,000 years, and denounces kind of globalization of kind of socialist fervor.

On the other hand, you've got, kind of Emmanuel Macron, kind of former Rothschild banker is the kind of globalist candidate who wants to, you know, have a single Eurozone budget, thinks that the Schengen borderless zone is a good idea and that the kind of French economy needs to deregulate. Now, I think these are kind of two kind of extreme positions. What Theresa May is trying to do is to chart a third way between the two of them.

To say, look, globalisation has done lots of good things, but it hasn't worked for too many people,

so we're going to make it work for people, and that's how we're going to make a success of it.

Fraser, do you recognise this new political axis that James describes?

Yes. Ever since the Trump shock, people have been trying to reorientate because it basically

defies the normal laws of political gravity. The kind of rules that seem to have governed

world politics since the mid-90s were quite simple, that there was a every political party

...