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I don't particularly have a disagreement.

If Stone one wants to campaign on trans rights, it seems to me what Stonewall wants to campaign on it.

I have an issue with the way in which it chose to campaign.

But if you're going to build a strategy around trans rights, you have to find a way of engaging with some of the difficulties that it poses.

Hello and welcome to Marshall Matters with me, Winston Marshall at The Spectator in London.

Today I am joined by Perrier award-winning comedian, author of the book The Power of Difference,

writer, broadcaster, a co-founder of the Gay Rights charity, Stonewall,

and also a co-founder of the new company, Diversity by Design, Simon Fancho.

Simon, thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me today. Well, it's a real

pleasure. Well, I have to say we don't know that. We'll see. We'll see. You might dislike it.

They'll be the judge of that. Quite. I'm sure it will be a pleasure for me. And it's been a

pleasure actually looking into your astounding life and the many things you've done and been up to and are

still up to. And I hope we can dig into that. I'd love to ask, we'll start with, the formation

of Stonewall. So you're one of the six co-founders. How did that come about? Well, it's always

funny having one's introduction read, because the truth of it is, I've never been able to hold down a job. I mean, that's the truth. In fact, I've never had a job. So, you know, it's a kind of desperate catalogue of failure, really. In 1987,89, there was a piece of legislation which was originally dreamt up by somebody, a couple of people on the

sort of further right of the Conservative Party. So remember this is Thatcher's Conservative Government,

Margaret Thatcher's Conservative Government, but it was adopted by the government and it was part

of a local government bill. It was known as Section 28. It actually started Section 22, I think,

and then it became like a bingo call.

...