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One of the things that he learned from this trial is he kind of endured to some extent the worst of what the rule of law

had to offer. And of course, between that and the Supreme Court decision on presidential

immunity really came out of it, not able to kind of be brought down by the rule of law.

It's the Lawfare podcast. I'm Anna Bauer, Lawfare Senior Editor, here with New York Times reporter Jonah Bromwich.

Understanding both what Trump was convicted for, which is incredibly historically significant,

and also understanding why that didn't enter the bloodstream of this country, why it didn't

enter kind of the public conversation

in a meaningful way is hugely important to understanding our environment, the rule of law.

It's been nearly one year since Donald Trump was convicted on 34 felony counts in Manhattan Criminal Court.

Today, we're talking about Jonah's new book on the subject called Dragon on Center Street

as we look back at the trial, consider its legacy, and discuss what comes next.

Your book is out May 27th. It's called Dragon on Center Street.

It is out almost one year to the day that you and I and a bunch of other reporters

sat in a courtroom waiting on a verdict in people of New York versus Donald J. Trump.

It's a really good read. And I think that law fair's most devoted listeners will be very

pleased to know that there is at least one anecdote about Ben Wittes' dog shirts in the book.

But I want to start, though, with the name, Dragon on Center Street.

...