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The Lawfare Podcast

Rational Security: The “Hi, Robot!” Edition

The Lawfare Podcast

The Lawfare Institute

Military, Intelligence, International Law, Constitutional Law, Rule Of Law, Politics, International Relations, News, Government, History, Diplomacy, Terrorism, National Security, Current Events, Law, Foreign Policy

4.76.2K Ratings

🗓️ 28 May 2025

⏱️ 84 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

This week, Scott sat down with the AI-oriented Lawfare Senior Editors Alan Rozenshtein and Kevin Frazier to talk through the week’s top AI-focused news stories, including:

  • “Oh Sure, Now He’s Into Free Trade.” President Trump has repealed the Biden administration’s rule setting strict limits on the diffusion of high-end AI technology, opening the door to the global transfer of the technologies powering U.S. AI development, including advanced chipsets. And we’re already seeing results of that policy in a recent deal the president signed with the UAE that would work toward the transfer of advanced semiconductors. How should AI diffusion fit into the broader global strategy surrounding the AI industry in the United States? And what approach does the Trump administration seem inclined to take?
  • “Paving Over the Playing Field.” House Republicans recently included a provision in a House bill that would have preempted state efforts to legislate on and regulate the AI industry for a decade. Is this sort of federal preemption a prudent step given the broader competitive dynamics with China? Or does it go too far in insulating AI companies and users from accountability for their actions, particularly where they put the public interest and safety at risk?
  • “Speechless.” A federal district court in Florida has issued a notable opinion of first impression in a tragic case involving a teenager who committed suicide, allegedly as a result of encouragement from an AI bot powered by the company character.ai. Among other holdings, the judge concluded that the AI’s output was not itself protected speech. Is this holding correct? And what impact will it have on the development of the AI industry?

In Object Lessons, the AI Guys went surprisingly analog. Alan recommended some good, ol’ fashioned, 19th-century imperial espionage with “The Great Game,” by Peter Hopkirk. Kevin, meanwhile, is keeping an eye on a different kind of game: the NCAA Division I Baseball Championship, in which he’s throwing up some Hook 'em Horns for Texas. And Scott is trying to “Economize” his time with The Economist’s Espresso app, a quick, curated read that fits neatly into a busy morning.

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Transcript

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0:00.0

The following podcast contains advertising.

0:04.4

To access an ad-free version of the Lawfare podcast, become a material supporter of Lawfare at

0:11.5

patreon.com slash lawfare. That's patreon.com slash lawfare.

0:18.2

Also, check out Lawfare's other podcast offerings, Rational Security, Chatter,

0:25.2

Lawfare No Bull, and The Aftermath.

0:30.1

So speaking of chips, everyone, I don't know what your kind of guilty pleasure was when we were all

0:36.4

younger men with better metabolisms.

0:38.2

But I distinctly remember, like, sitting in my college dorm when I was 18 and being able to

0:43.1

put down an entire, like, party-sized bag of Tostito's hint of lime, like, it was nothing.

0:50.9

And that is just, that is not me anymore.

0:53.1

You've got to be dipping something. Are you just

0:55.2

straight, straight chip? No, straight hint of lime chips. I think you may have just wanted a lime at

1:00.4

that point. That's a lot of hints of lime. Disgusting. Yeah, take the hint, Alan. That was scurvy,

1:05.3

Alan. I think that is my body. That is my body telling me that you cannot just live on Tostitos alone, even if you are 18 and made of rubber.

1:12.0

Are you a pirate?

1:13.0

Why do you need that much hint of lime?

1:14.9

How bad was the scurvy?

1:16.1

Because the rest of my diet was so terrible, I guess, as a college student.

1:20.6

No, we had at the University of Oregon go ducks, we had whammies, which were these milkshakes that you could get, I swear, like a 20-ounce milkshake on demand.

1:32.0

And so we would just go like every day.

1:33.7

Every day was a whammy day.

1:35.1

Why wouldn't you want a whammy every single day of your life?

...

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