Welcome to Untangle, the podcast from 5-star app Meditation Studio and Muse, the brain-sensing

headband that helps you meditate. I'm Patricia Carpice. The incredibly cool Muse app syncs with the

headband to give you biofeedback on what's happening in your brain as you meditate. To give

Muse a try, go to choose muse.com

and plug in the promo code Muse StressLust for your 15% discount. Let us know how you like it.

Today's guest is Kern Berry. Kern is the author of the book, Difficult Conversations,

the Art and Science of Working Together.

This topic feels so important right now as we come off of this very difficult election,

but also as we realize how diverse we are as individuals and communities.

We struggle to understand each other in relationships, communities, the nation, and the world.

Kern's insights sound simple, but putting them into practice is the real challenge.

I've tried some of this tips, and trust me, it's hard to do, but so important if we want to live peacefully with one another.

It involves dropping our egos, letting go of feeling like we need to be right all the time,

deep listening to truly understand one another and seeing beyond our own stories.

There's a lot of great stuff here. Now, here's Kern. Kern, it's such a pleasure to have you on Untangle today. Thanks so much for being with us.

Patricia, thank you for inviting me. It's great to be here. Yeah. Such a timely topic, difficult

conversations abound. And I love how your subtext to your headline is the art and science

of working together because I think we need this now more than ever. I like one of the quotes

that you had in the beginning of your book by Tony

Morrison. So I just want to read that for everyone. I know the world is bruised and bleeding.

And though it is important not to ignore its pain, it is also critical to refuse to succumb to

its malevolence.

...