This is the Hidden Killers podcast with Tony Bruske and continuing coverage of the case against

Karen Reed. We're going to dive more into the mind behind the crime on this edition of the program

with Chivon Scott, psychotherapist and author, and her new book is out, Nightbird. You can get it on

Amazon or wherever you get books,

or you can go request it from your local bookstore or wherever you want. It's very good.

It's quite a story that you have to tell in this book. I've just, just begun getting into it,

and I need more time in my day.

But you also gave me the audiobook, too.

So you can get the audiobook out there as well,

depending on what your schedule is like, but do check that out.

So there's a lot in this where obviously we're not diagnosing Karen Reed.

We can't do that.

This is just speculation on a lot of different angles of what may be going on in this mind.

Because I think once you kind of get an understanding of maybe what's going on behind those statements, behind those thoughts, behind those actions, you can kind of, it makes more sense.

Let's start off with what happened, what this whole case is about.

John O'Keefe being struck by a vehicle.

The allegation is Karen Reed is the one that struck him. Vehicle is the one that says it struck

him at the precise moment when his phone stopped working. So let's operate on the assumption that

this actually did happen and that

Karen, in fact, backed it up. The big question is, did she do it with rage, with a lot of passion

because she was angry at John? Or was this simply just an accident? She hit reverse and then she went in it

and didn't realize that he was behind her and she was in her drunken stupor or is it some sort of

...