The most effective strategies for dealing with depression and anxiety are the ones that deal with the reasons why we feel so bad in the first place.

We need to stop asking what's wrong with you and start asking what happened to you.

If you think life is about money and status and showing off, you're going to feel like shit.

It's not like I'm explaining quantum physics, right?

And we all had that experience where you crave a consumer object, you build up to it, you get

it, you get home and you just feel flat.

It's not the trauma that destroys you.

It's the shame about the trauma.

And giving people ways to release that shame is an antidepressant.

God, change is really possible. Today we have a real treat for you. This guest today, Johann Hari, is one of my all-time favorite

ever podcast guests ever, and I'm not saying that to blow smoke up his ass. When I had the conversation with him and when I started

reading his books many years ago I can quite honestly say that no book I've

ever read in my life has had more of a positive impact, a more transformative impact on the topics that matter most to my

fulfillment and happiness than the work that Johann has done. He is a comedian on one hand. He's an incredible

storyteller. He spends a decade writing his book. So you know the

information he's going to share with you today is both profound, it is evidence-backed, and it is compelling, true,

important and everything that our society at this point in time needs to hear.

This could well be the most important podcast I've ever recorded.

If you asked me, if there was one podcast that I wish the world's got to hear,

it's definitely this one, above all of the other podcasts I've ever recorded, this is the conversation.

So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett and this is the driver CEO. I hope nobody's

listening, but if you are are then please keep this yourself. Johan, it's a real pleasure to have you back on the podcast. You are one of my all-time

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