Jill Lepore on the Destructive Power of Tech
TALKING POLITICS
Catherine Carr
4.7 • 2.5K Ratings
🗓️ 17 September 2020
⏱️ 42 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
David talks to the American historian Jill Lepore about the damage new technology can do to democracy, from the 1960s to the present. Who first tried to manipulate the minds of the electorate? Where did the money come from? What happened when the same technology was applied to fighting the Vietnam War? Plus we discuss US presidential elections from 1960 to 2020: do the machines really decide who is going to win, and if he does win this time, what might Joe Biden be able to do about it?
Talking Points
The Simulmatics Corporation was one of the first data analytics companies founded in 1959.
- They were collecting personal data, coming up with mathematical models for human behavior, making predictions, and selling that as a service.
- They got their big break in the 1960 election.
Advertising was basically invented to defend corporations against muckraking journalists.
- It became something else as modern consumer society emerged.
- Eventually, some of the ad agencies began working for the Republican Party. The Republican Party is the party of big business, so it’s nor surprising that they’ve always had a leg up in political advertising.
Was the Simulmatics Corporation for real?
- Their insights were not particularly startling.
- The Simulmatics Corporations were liberals who were trying to convince the Democratic Party to take a stronger position on civil rights by telling them that black voters could make a difference in the election.
- There’s something kind of creepy about the whole thing: a bunch of mid-century, white, liberal men building a machine to try to understand people of color and women.
- A tight election is good for huxters. There’s a huge, enabling industry of journalism to oversell this kind of technology.
There’s a big gap between how we understand politics should work in the physical world and the mysteriousness and anarchy of the digital world.
- Democracies are bad at reforming themselves because the winners are not incentivized to do it.
- The monopoly today is the monopoly of the means of doing politics.
- The pandemic makes it worse. We are now more wedded to our devices and it is harder to conduct campaigns outside of them.
Mentioned in this Episode:
- Jill Lepore, If Then: How the Simulmatics Corporation Invented the Future
- Jill’s podcast, ‘The Last Archive: Who Killed Truth?’
- Sue Halpern on the Trump campaign’s mobile app
Further Learning:
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | Hello, my name is David Ransman and this is Talking Politics. Today we talk to one of our |
| 0:12.5 | favourite Talking Politics guests, the American historian Jill LaPore, about the crazy origins |
| 0:18.9 | of the crazy tech world we live in. Talking Politics is brought to you in partnership |
| 0:25.8 | with the London reviewer books. If you enjoy listening to Talking Politics you'll definitely |
| 0:30.6 | enjoy reading the LRB. That's why they publish a reading list of relevant writing from |
| 0:35.8 | the archive to accompany every episode on lrb.co.uk and also why you, Talking Politics listeners, |
| 0:44.3 | are invited to subscribe for just one pound of issue. |
| 0:48.3 | By the URL lrb.me slash talk. That's lrb.me slash talk. Talking Politics in partnership with |
| 1:00.1 | the London reviewer books. |
| 1:04.5 | We recorded this conversation with Jill LaPore a couple of days ago on top of everything |
| 1:17.6 | else she was dealing with. She also had an eight week old puppy and you may hear a bit |
| 1:22.8 | of a dog in the background. More explanations of that at the end. |
| 1:27.7 | Jill, there's so much in this book that connects to now and some of it is really quite haunting |
| 1:33.0 | but maybe we should just start with a bit of scene setting. The Simulmatics Corporation, |
| 1:38.2 | just tell us who these guys were and they were mainly guys. They were almost all guys. |
| 1:43.2 | Yeah, all the scientists and executives were guys. So it was one of the first, what we would |
| 1:49.5 | call data science companies founded in 1959. So really at the height of the Cold War by a bunch of |
| 1:57.0 | Madison Avenue types at agency guys, behavioral scientists and what we're called at the time |
| 2:02.7 | computer men which would come to be called computer scientists. So doing the kind of analytical work |
| 2:08.4 | collecting data, people's personal data coming up with mathematical models for their behavior |
| 2:14.7 | and making predictions about it and then selling that as a service. That was their business model. |
| 2:19.8 | They got their big break in the 1960 presidential election and it is advertising. So it made me, |
... |
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