This episode contains conversation about self-harm and suicide.

There is also a mention of gun violence.

The interview was recorded on May 12 before the events in Texas.

It's Depression Mode. I'm John Moe. I'm glad you're here. My guest this week is a writer, speaker, and mental health advocate who got involved in this issue because he wanted to keep someone here, here in the world.

Jamie Tworkowski is the founder of To Write Love on Her Arms. It's a non-profit organization aimed at helping in the cause of fighting addiction, depression, self-harm, and suicidal thoughts.

To write love on her arms began in 2006, and it's named after an essay that Jamie wrote while trying to help a friend who was struggling with all those issues.

Jamie isn't a therapist or a social worker. His background was in the surfing industry,

branding and marketing. The essay went viral. In a time when going viral was pretty rare,

it involved the social network MySpace. You can go look that up if you've never heard about it.

We'll talk about the reasons for the name to write love on her arms in a bit.

Jamie is a best-selling author. He's given TED Talks. His story with To Write Love on Her Arms was

even made into a movie. Jamie was played by Chad Michael Murray, and Jamie's been a person

living with depression his whole life. He has stepped away, amicably, from running the nonprofit,

but he's still very much involved in mental health advocacy. When I spoke with him,

he was coming off a breakup, which means he was in a rough patch.

For me, heartache has always been kind of the Achilles heel.

It's always been the hardest thing, And I know that's not unique.

That's what most songs are written about.

But yeah, you know, so for me, I think my first adult heartbreak breakup was kind of my introduction to depression.

Was like, hey, this is bigger than just being sad.

Like, this is real grief and I need to get some help for this.

You know, like this is, this is taking me out of life for an extended period.

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