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The David Frum Show

J. D. Vance’s Bargain With the Devil

The David Frum Show

The Atlantic

Politics, News, News Commentary

4.62.4K Ratings

🗓️ 28 May 2025

⏱️ ? minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

On this episode of The David Frum Show, David opens with a Memorial Day message about corruption and extortion in the Trump White House, including revelations about meme-coin pay-to-play schemes and foreign-financed golf courses. Then David is joined by his Atlantic colleague George Packer to discuss Packer’s new profile of Vice President J. D. Vance. They examine Vance’s sharp political turn from thoughtful memoirist to contemptuous shape-shifter, and debate whether Vance believes what he says or just knows what power demands.  David closes the episode with a reflection on Edward Luce’s new biography of Zbigniew Brzezinski and what Brzezinski’s legacy says about American power today. Get more from your favorite Atlantic voices when you subscribe. You’ll enjoy unlimited access to Pulitzer-winning journalism, from clear-eyed analysis and insight on breaking news to fascinating explorations of our world. Atlantic subscribers also get access to exclusive subscriber audio in Apple Podcasts. Subscribe today at theAtlantic.com/listener. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

What if you could listen to all your books, docs, PDFs, and articles as if they were a podcast?

0:05.5

Well, you can. With the 11 Reader app, you can turn anything into natural sounding voice.

0:10.9

Like this one, download 11 Reader for free on your favorite app store today. Hello, and welcome to episode eight of the David Fromm show.

0:30.1

I'm David Frum, a staff writer at The Atlantic.

0:33.0

My guest this week will be George Packer, an Atlantic colleague, an author of an

0:37.2

incisive new profile

0:38.2

of Vice President J.D. Vance, the talented Mr. Vance. At the end of the program, I'm going to

0:43.7

discuss a little bit. I have some thoughts about an important new book, a biography of former

0:48.0

National Security Advisors Zbignia Bersinski by Ed Luce, a columnist for the Financial Times.

0:53.4

But first, let me offer some thoughts on the week just past.

0:57.5

I record this discussion on Memorial Day 2025, the day when Americans honor those who have served

1:04.3

America to the utmost of human capability by laying down their lives for their country.

1:09.8

It seems a fitting occasion to try to address the monstrous display of self-service

1:15.4

we've seen in the past days from the Trump administration, this staggeringly corrupt

1:20.5

administration, not just the most corrupt administration in American history, but one of the

1:24.9

most corrupt administrations of any Democratic country ever.

1:28.6

Two things just from the week's docket.

1:30.8

This past week, President Trump hosted a dinner for some 200, more than 200 people who were invited to dinner with the President of the United States because they had purchased souvenir meme coins directly from his company.

1:42.8

They paid millions of dollars. Many of them were

1:45.2

foreign nationals. We don't know their names because those have not been disclosed, but they

1:49.0

directly bought access to the president of the United States by putting money into the hands

1:53.5

of his own company in exchange really for nothing because these are just mean. They're souvenir

...

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