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The Good Fight

Is It Time to Abandon Meritocracy?

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 14 August 2020

⏱️ 61 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Michael Sandel, one of the most influential political philosophers of our time, makes a provocative argument: Meritocracy allows successful people to feel good about themselves, and doesn’t do anything to address the plight of those who are less fortunate. It is time to abandon the ideal. In this conversation about Sandel’s new book, The Tyranny of Merit: What’s Become of the Common Good?, I debate these themes with him. Should we really throw the pursuit of meritocracy on the trash heap of history? Or would it be better to ensure that our society actually lives up to the meritocratic ideal (while ensuring that everyone can have a decent life)? Please do take the time to listen to our conversation. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: goodfightpod@gmail.com Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

We're inclined to think yes some people have been left behind but that's because they don't have an education

0:07.2

but this goes back to the 1990s Bill Clinton had a kind of rhyming couple, he said,

0:13.3

what you can earn will depend on what you can learn.

0:16.9

And that seemed almost too obvious to contest,

0:20.6

but it's a recipe for failing to respect most of the society.

0:25.0

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:29.0

Joe Biden has just picked Kamala Harris as the vice presidential nominee for the Democratic Party.

0:38.0

Now, I think this podcast is the right venue to debate her merits or the criticisms that have been made against her.

0:46.6

But I do want to say one way, which may seem a little bit straightforward and tried, in which I find myself very drawn to her story.

0:57.8

It is that Kamala Harris has an Indian mother and a Jamaican father that she grew up in a Baptist church in a Hindu temple and is now married to a Jew.

1:09.0

That many of the ways in which at least parts of America are genuinely

1:14.8

diverse and generally international and are genuinely

1:17.2

cosmopolitan are just part of who she is. There are parts of America on the right that hate that vision of America,

1:29.6

that are scared by the demographic changes that she represents.

1:35.0

They are also parts of the workers social justice left,

1:41.0

which is uncomfortable with the idea of deep connections across racial

1:50.0

and ethnic lines. And I've been thinking about this this I think there's a logic for that from within some of the quote-unquote woke

2:00.8

worldview it is that somebody who is white and somebody who is a person of color.

2:08.4

Or for that matter, somebody who is black and somebody who is not black will always have of status of power

2:24.8

are inherently problematic.

2:27.9

And when you take those two precepts together, when you get what you increasingly see in parts of the discourse this idea that is

2:37.0

perfectly fine to problematize into racial relationships from the left or as

...

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