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The Good Fight

Why Do Diversity Programs Fail

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 4 August 2020

⏱️ 45 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. For the past years, Frank Dobbin, a Professor of Sociology at Harvard University, has been researching diversity initiatives at big corporations and academic institutions. He has consistently come to the same, sobering conclusion: They don’t tend to work. And in many cases, they actually backfire. In this nuts-and-bolts conversation with Yascha Mounk, Dobbin explains why diversity programs so often fail: Especially if they are mandatory, they tend to portray decision-makers as part of the problem, and to threaten them with adverse consequences if they do something wrong. Instead, he suggests, diversity programs should invite decision-makers to become active advocates for change by making initiatives voluntary and empowering managers to make their own decisions about how to recruit more members of underrepresented groups. Please do take the time to listen to our conversation. Email: goodfightpod@gmail.com Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Some of the early trainings from the 1970s did focus on stereotypes, which is another way of talking about unconscious biases,

0:10.0

and the idea there was to make people aware of their biases and to allow them to reflect as they're making a decision on whether they might have been biased in the decision.

0:23.0

So what we've seen, unfortunately,

0:25.3

is that as you say, the early versions of anti-stereotype training

0:30.2

and then the more recent versions of implicit bias training

0:35.0

don't seem to change people's implicit bias

0:38.0

or explicit bias by very much.

0:41.0

So sometimes you get a tiny effect after the training but very rarely

0:45.8

has anyone shown anything more than a very small and transient effect.

0:50.3

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:54.0

It has been a tough few months.

0:59.0

The coronavirus pandemic is still raging and no end is inside.

1:07.0

Our politics seems to have gone haywire.

1:11.0

In Poland, the populist president was re-elected, which puts the country's democracy into real

1:19.0

existential danger over the next three or four years. But there is one very bright spot, which is that I'm more

1:30.0

optimistic at this point than at any moment since November 2016 that Donald Trump will

1:36.7

fail to be reelected. This is a product of two different things.

1:42.8

The first is that Trump has failed to deliver on any of his promises

1:47.2

and does not seem to have any coherent strategy

1:51.2

for this election.

1:52.3

You can see that by the way in which he's

1:54.3

flaming about trying to find a powerful slogan and ultimately apparently over the

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