Gide, humans.

Welcome to the show that goes where other shows dare not tread.

The show that rejects partisanship and tribalism.

I'm Josh Zeps, your humble interrogator, your humble interlocutor,

and each week I hunt down the world's most interesting people

to wrestle with questions that normally

get everyone in a huff. Because so much of modern culture and politics and media, especially

social media, panders to what you already believe and distorts what you don't already believe.

It reinforces what you're comfortable thinking about. This is not the show

for that. We know that change doesn't happen inside echo chambers, so step out of the comfort

zone, flex your mind, tread on some landmines, and have some uncomfortable conversations.

This week on the show, Hallelujah, we have a ceasefire in Gaza, apparently, supposedly, for now while I'm looking at my watch. Maybe not by the time you hear this. I hope so. After 10 days of bloodshed between Israel and Hamas, there is at least a

new mini chapter of peace in the overall context of hardship, warfare and bloodshed in that corner of the world.

And so I wanted to bring you one of the best conversations I've ever had about how we think

about Israel. This is a couple of years old now, but it's as true as it has ever been

and as interesting as it has ever been because the overarching themes

of Israel and Palestine are unchanged, regardless of who started what and which skirmish and who

did what in East Jerusalem and when did Hamas fire, what rockets and all of that tit for tat.

All of that is irrelevant fundamentally.

What this conversation is about is what it means to judge a nation,

what it means to aspire towards self-determination,

and how you can adjudicate competing rights, competing legitimate rights.

...