It's always the case that when there's some protest moment where there's a mix of different

levels of transgression and different kinds of tactics and property destruction and other things

like that, it's always the case that that precipitates this conversation about violence and

nonviolent protest and about like the efficacy of different kinds of protests and

about the optics of protests. It seemed to me like the speed with which that became the topic

about these protests in my weird but you know like New Yorkie aperture was so fast. It was so

extreme. And I just wonder why that is. And what ways of

thinking about this stuff does that conversation basically like foreclose? So I have been thinking

about this this week. And I think there are two reasons. I think one is because the entire recent

history of immigration policy has been good

immigrants versus bad immigrants.

And so that kind of slots in really fast.

Like you saw immigrant rights organizations very quickly doing it here too.

Like we're going to hold a peaceful protest.

Like the word peaceful has been used so much.

And then the second thing is, I think

there's just like a real fear of Trump. The way that he does law enforcement is so completely

lawless that if you start doing things that are quote unquote illegal or are provocative,

like you're going to get put away. And so I think people are really freaked out and reasonably so.

So to me, that's what I see going on. But, you know, I mean, I'm sure your listeners are already

kind of committed to this concept. But it's like once you start doing like the good

protest or bad protester thing or the good immigrant, bad immigrant thing, you're kind of

...