People don't believe that super intelligence is about to be real. When AI is smarter than humanity,

we are just going to lose our power. I'm convinced that it's much easier to just go summon a demon

than to control the demon that you're summoning. Neither us nor China have the faintest understanding

of how we can possibly control the system that we're building. AI, if it doesn't do something crazier, we'll have many millions of humans doing its bidding. Pushing big groups of humans around for a superintelligence, it's just not a fundamentally hard problem. Our kids might never grow up because they'll be dead. I'm Leran Shapira. I'm the host of Doom Debates, which is a podcast and YouTube show. My position is that I have a high P Doom. I think there's a 50% chance that everybody will literally die by the year 2050, and it's probably going to be because of uncontrollable, super intelligent AI. I think the subject is under discussed, even though a lot of the top intellectuals are taking it seriously. I don't think the average person on the street realizes how dire things are getting. And so my show, Dub Debates, is a place to come and see the current state of the debate. The current arguments people make why we're not doomed and my argument of why we are doomed. And I think if you watch my show, you're going to see it's not as good as you might think.

The arguments for why you're not doomed are all over the place.

Thank you so much for being here.

It's incredible.

Watching the doom debates kind of just like quickly snowballing, getting up to speed.

You've had some highly, highly interesting people on there debating them and kind of

breaking down their ideas, seeing where they're strong, whether weak. It's been absolutely

fascinating. You had huge names in there. And I just want to start this off by saying to a lot of

people that are watching this on my channel, like I know that we're not all on the same page about AI risks. I mean,

I feel like I have quite a spectrum of people from very people that are very optimistic to

people that also have a high P-Doom and think that we're kind of heading for some sort of

a catastrophe in one way or another way. It's from misaligned AI or misuse or something as a result of developing AI. So, but for the time being, really, for this episode, I'd love for all us to maybe, you know, leave our preconceived notions and just let's, let's reason. Let us reason together. Well, the thing is, Wes, we're going to need you to be the optimist here. You know what I mean?

You'll have to play to your, you'll have to pretend your P-Doom is like not existing because I feel like otherwise we're not going to have anyone to balance ideas off of, you know? I'm naturally very optimistic and excited a lot about a lot of these things. but the more I listen and read, especially things by Leaser,

and kind of see a lot of the

new research, Apollo research, the stuff that they're publishing, all this stuff. I mean,

it's hard to be dismissive. Like it's, I think there's no wrong takes here, but if you're just

completely feel everything's going to be fine, a hundred percent chance with so fine and dandy, I think you're missing the plot. If you're not a little bit worried, you know, in my opinion, just at least be a little bit worried. Yeah. Or maybe you can like talk about the definition between like doom and change because maybe and Leron, you could kind of start there too. Because one thing that trips me up is sometimes people go after me for being a bit of a doom or being really negative.

But a lot of the kind of thinking that I have about what would make the future uncomfortable isn't necessarily like death or attack.

But it's such a rapidly changing world where Neurrelink and biology are changing to a point where the world

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