ICE, Bernie Goetz, and Lessons for Today (with Elliot Williams)

Stay Tuned with Preet

Vox Media Podcast Network

News, Society & Culture, Politics, Government

4.8 • 32.4K Ratings

🗓️ 22 January 2026

⏱️ 70 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

How far has ICE strayed from its original mission? And how has its evolution led to the deadly shooting of Renee Good? This week, lawyer and former ICE Assistant Director for Legislative Affairs Elliot Williams joins Preet Bharara to discuss the recent ICE shooting in Minneapolis and why its aftermath is unprecedented. Plus, they discuss the lessons that still resonate today from a notorious ‘80s case explored in Williams’s new book, Five Bullets: The Story of Bernie Goetz, New York’s Explosive ‘80s, and the Subway Vigilante Trial That Divided the Nation. Then, Preet answers your questions on President Trump’s threat to invoke the Insurrection Act to quell anti-ICE protests in Minnesota, Trump’s proposed tariffs on European countries that oppose American control of Greenland, and the State Department’s font change for official documents. In the bonus for Insiders, Elliot shares his advice for NYC’s new mayor, Zohran Mamdani, if he were to encounter another so-called “subway vigilante.” Join the CAFE Insider community to stay informed without hysteria, fear-mongering, or rage-baiting. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website. You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Shop Stay Tuned merch and featured books by our guests in our Amazon storefront. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at staytuned@cafe.com, or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	From Cafe and the Vox Media Podcast Network, welcome to stay tuned.
0:05.7	I'm Preet Bharara.
0:08.4	When you hire people who are unfit for the jobs they have, they're not in good physical shape, they're too old, you incentivize them behaving in a bad way by paying them gobs of money, big civil rights violations are going to
0:22.5	occur on a wide scale, and we are seeing it now.
0:27.6	That's Elliot Williams. He's a lawyer and legal analyst for CNN. Previously, he served as
0:33.7	Assistant Director for Legislative Affairs at ICE and Deputy Assistant Attorney
0:37.6	General for Legislative Affairs at DOJ. Now, Elliot is out with his first book, Five Bullets,
0:44.0	the story of Bernie Gets, New York's explosive 80s, and a subway vigilante trial that divided the
0:50.2	nation. He joins me to break down how ICE has evolved under the Trump administration
0:54.4	and why the aftermath of Renee Good's deadly shooting in Minneapolis is unprecedented.
1:00.2	Then I'll answer your questions about President Trump's threat to invoke the Insurrection Act,
1:03.8	the tariffs Trump wants to impose on European countries that oppose American control of Greenland,
1:08.8	and the State Department's font change for official documents.
1:12.3	That's coming up. Stay tuned.
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