Tetragrammaton When we spoke two years ago, I was in a way pouring my heart out as this pariah.

That was the summer of 23, and FTX had happened in 22.

And I think even in that moment, those of us who worked in crypto were a bit in denial as to just how much damage FTX had done to the world of crypto.

Again, I think that the important way to contextualize these things is, as the author Carlotta Perez wrote, technological revolutions always have a rush of opportunists.

And even when there are good ideas, there is overinvestment, there's a bubble, the bubble bursts, and then you get 30 years of sustained growth.

In her book, she talks about it over history,

and the book was written in 2002,

so it sort of concludes with the dot-com bubble,

but we were really feeling it in 2023

in the world of crypto.

Was FTX the bursting of the crypto bubble in some way?

I think it was that 1999 moment, yes. And the reason I think

you can say that, because there have been many crypto cycles before. You had an ICO bubble in 2017

where everyone was going to create a coin. There was Kodak coin. So there were certainly other bubbles.

But the FTX one, it was a Larry David Super Bowl ad followed by the founder of that company

in prison big.

But is that because the players in that story were the biggest institutions in the world

as opposed to just regular people?

I think it was right at that precipice is the answer. I think that

you had the biggest players in the world and players like Black Rock, Larry Fink, and BlackRock, as

an example, beginning to realize that this is real and that this is an innovation and this this is an

innovation that's going to change the world of finance. At the same time,

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