I don't even know about my boundaries. I don't know if they're good, I don't know if they're bad, I don't know if they're too strict, I don't know if they're too loose. So part of it is you have to think about where are you resentful? Because if you put everyone above yourself, if you are last on your own list, if you have a terribly negative inner voice that's so mean and caustic to you, then you are literally setting the bar in your life. You will inevitably attract others who agree with that low self-assessment. And when you feel good about yourself, live self-love. You are setting the bar higher and you will inevitably attract folks who think that that is how worthy you are. Welcome, Terri Coe to Women of Impact. You are the boundary boss. And I wanna say thank you so much for joining because today I wanna dig deep into boundaries because I feel like for us women, especially to have the life we want to really go after that dream, to not feel like we're getting pushed around and told what we shouldn't shouldn't do. It all comes back down to boundaries. And your book, Boundary Boss, really is so amazing at laying out all the steps in order for us to show up to be the person we want to be and set the boundaries. So welcome to Women of Impact. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. I love me too. So what I want to start is something very unique that I've never had about. You talk about cropped boundary data. Can you actually tell us what that is and then we'll dive a little deeper? Sure, this is really the misinformation that we got growing up about boundaries. So, you know what he talks to you about boundaries, you witnessed them. So all of us have this downloaded boundary blueprint is what I call it. So this unconscious material that drives our behavior in reference to boundaries. So it matters what country, what culture, your family, system, all of those things, the modeled behavior that you saw growing up, all of them come together to create your boundary blueprint. But most people, A, don't know that there's a lot of corrupted data in that blueprint. And B, they don't even know that these downloaded schemas kind of in your mind, your unconscious mind. If you go down into the basement, you could actually take a look at them and decide whether that is for you or not for you. But usually we just go, oh, I guess this is the way the world is. So hopefully what Boundary Boss is doing is giving people a step-by-step process to find out what is in your basement around boundaries. I love that. What is in your basement? So good. Going to the beginning of just assessing our assumptions because I think that that's something that we just almost take for granted. How do we start to assess what type of mindset and limiting beliefs we actually have in order to then say, oh, I can then change this. Well, this is a choice. Most people will ask me, I don't even know about my boundaries. I don't know if they're good. I don't know if they're bad. I don't know if they're too strict. I don't know if they're too loose. So part of it is you have to think about where are you resentful? Right? I have people do a resentment inventory because this will usually reveal where a boundary is needed or one that you've set is being violated or a need of yours is not being met. And instead of just being like I'm angry, we really are drilling down into who are you holding resentment for because that usually can tell you where you need a boundary. And in reference to figuring out your boundary sort of archetype or your style, I actually created a free quiz that people can take. It's just boundaryquiz. where you can go and see where do you fall? Are your boundaries, your disordered boundaries? Are they because they're too loose? Or is it because they're too rigid? And this is something that I think that there is a lot of myths around. People are like, oh, you're a boundary boss. You must be saying no all the time, telling people my way or the highway. And I'm like, oh no. That's not it at all. That is the other side of the spectrum. So in particular, women have a tendency to overgive. I mean, let's be honest about how we were raised. Most of us were raised and praised for being self-abandoning codependents. Can you break that down a little like when you say that what do you mean by that? Well, I mean self-abandoning means that I choose what I think is better for you than for me. I don't want conflict. I don't want you to be mad at me. I'm afraid to be rejected.

So instead of asserting what is true for me, I will abandon myself in that moment. I will suck it up. Take one for the team. I could, you know, there's a million things we could say about it. But that is self-abandonment. When we prioritize the needs and desires of others over our own. Right? So that's the self-abandoned part. But the codependent piece

is so incredibly common with women because we are taught to be like we're the bridges, where the producers of life, where the ones in the middle of all the things. But when you think about what codependency actually is, well, usually it's overgiving, right? It's really a covert or overt bid for control. That is what codependency is and it doesn't look like that. And I have this very high function group of women in my practice. I've always had that demographic. So when I first started seeing this, this sort of epidemic of codependency and disordered boundaries, and I would say, oh, hey, what you're describing is codependent behavior. And they would be like, what are you nuts? I'm not dependent on squat. Everyone is dependent on me. I'll make it all the money. I'm the one doing all the frigging things make making sure the kids are getting where they need to go. And I'm like, oh, my clients do not know what codependency actually is. And so I created a new name, high functioning codependency. Because that is what I was when I was still super actively codependent. So high functioning codependents are the women where everyone is like, you're the rock, right? I always come to you with my problems and we're doing it all, but at the expense of ourselves. Inherent incodependency are disordered boundaries. So you cannot be codependent and have healthy boundaries because these two things are actually mutually exclusive. But what is codependencing? It's you being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, the circumstances, the relationships of the people in your life, to the detriment of your internal piece, your financial or physical spiritual well-being. Because really, I mean, all of us are lovers, right? Of course, we are invested in the happiness of the people that we love. That's not codependency. Codependency is when you are overly so. And if you're wondering, then if you're watching a listening lick, how can I tell? Well, if your best friend calls you with a problem, I'm going to ask you to check your urgency. Did you suddenly start making phone calls and googling and going getting your books and underlining things like, do you feel compelled to fix your friend's problem? The moment your best friend called you, did that then become Literally, your problem? That is codependency, where instead of being compassionate to our friend or having faith that our friend has the answers for herself, we really think it's on us and really it's so much of the stems from childhood, a chaotic childhood, addiction, abuse, and really even just a very strict household, religious household, pretty much any household anyone was raised in could really sew the seeds for codependency. Oh my god, that was so amazing. That was so amazing because I've heard codependency, the word thrown around a lot. And so you just break and that down was so beautiful and I'd never heard that it would explain like that was so amazing because I've heard you know, codependency, the word thrown around a lot. And so you just break in that down with so beautiful. And I'd never heard it explain like that before. How do we start to then pass between the wonderful feeling of feeling needed and now we're spilling into codependency where you have a dysfunctional relationship and you're not setting boundaries? Well, the awareness is the first step because what shifted it for me in my 20s I had a brilliant therapist who helped me see that what I was doing, there was one of my sisters had a really rough life. So she was with an abusive guy. There was all these things where I for sure thought it was my problem to fix. And I was talking about it in therapy and crying and what am I going to do, right? My therapist is like, excuse me. So she went on to say, you know, Terry, let me ask you something. What makes you think that you know what lessons she needs to learn in this lifetime? And I was like, well, I think we can all agree. It doesn't have to be with this abusive idiot.

Like why, I mean, it doesn't have to be like this.

And she was like, I actually can't agree with that. Because I have no idea what your sister needs to learn in this lifetime. And neither do you. Do you know what's really going on for you? And I was like, no, obviously. And she said, to Clumia, you know, she said, you have worked really hard to create internal peace for yourself. And your sister's dumpster fire of a life is really messing with that peace. So what you really want is to tie that up in a bow so you can be internally peaceful, which you can't, because you're so co-dependent with your sister. What's happening to her feels like it's happening to you, but it's not. And I was like, oh my god. And when I really thought about it because prior to that, I was like, you know me I'm just a lover. I really like to think of myself as Mother Teresa. Right. Right? Like it's all from this loving place. is that there was so much clarity in that moment

that it was really a bid for control because her messed up life was messing up my piece. And she said, now, from that perspective, now how do we problem solve? And I was like, I step back until she wants help or we'll get away from this idiot and that'll help her.

She's like, correct.

I step back.

I tell my sister, hey, I love you, but I can't listen to you telling me the same horrendous crap every day about this guy. But if you ever want to make a change, I'm still your person. And about nine months later, she called me and she's like, hello, I'm ready. I was like, great, I'm getting in my car.

And that was that.

And she went back to school and got sober.

And all of the things that came from that were not because of me, because I centered myself in my sister's problem. They were because my sister was ready to change and to grow and to commit to a different life. And when you think about how narcissistic it really is or self-important to be like, but I really know what you should do. Of course, that wasn't how I meant it. I didn't think I had a choice. I thought I had to do it because she was my sister. But this is what codependency looks like and the truth about what we're doing. That bid for control really is heart. So what can you do instead? Right? That was the longest way around the barn to get back to your question, which is, what can we do instead? Part of it is your awareness, right? I build all of my work on these five pillars of self-mastery or transformation that I created in the first is self-awareness. So you cannot shift anything that you were unaware of, right? That's obvious. And then we move into self-knowledge. Like, why am I this way? And then there's self-acceptance, self-compassion and then self-mastery, but this beginning phase of awareness is really important. So what does that require, It requires you to become radically curious without judgment. You know, Deepak would say, become the observer without judgment, and this is like the highest sort of of your own evolution, that you get curious and go, huh, well, my friend called me with a problem. Did I immediately jump into action or was I able to stop and say to my friend, hey, before I weigh in, if you want my opinion, because if they're used to coming to you, they do want your opinion, but you don't need to give it. What do you think? What does your gut say? Listen, you know better than anyone. What's right for you? So I'm here to brainstorm it, but what is your gut? Like there's a way that we can trust that the people in our life are responsible for themselves, whether they know what to do or not. But it's not people that we love. Right. It's like we're managing people instead of relating to them in this love way. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. And that's so beautiful way of framing. I actually love to, I'm so specific. It's like, okay, what did you say? So with your sister's, everything you just said is beautiful. And asking someone, what does your gut tell you? What are you feeling? I totally understand that. Now I'm envisioning in a scenario

which I think we all know these people where it's the same problem that repeats and they don't want to look at themselves. And like you were saying with your sister, where you came to this conclusion of, oh, I'm co-dependent, it's not good for either of us. How did you overcome the guilt? because I think that's so huge when it comes to boundaries

that we feel guilty, that maybe we're abandoning them,

like in those moments, if you have your sister who you love to be as in who maybe is very emotional and when you say I can't deal with this anymore or you know, did you go through any guilt? Did you go through any worry over abandonment? She approached you with abandonment because then what did we say in those situations where we can have the strength to stick by the boundary that we're trying to lay out? Well, all good questions. And of course, I had guilt because I had been such an over-functioner. So to actually draw that boundary, that very difficult emotional boundary was incredibly hard, but she knew why I was doing it. And when, you know, I just said, listen, I love you, and you staying in this abusive situation is too painful for me. I can't continue because it is disrupting my life so much. So if you want to change, I'm here, I love you, but I can't be a part of this because it is so dysfunctional and painful. And she's like, I love you too, and I understand. Now she understood and part of her, I think was relieved in a way that I was gonna back off. And then, you know, she was in it for nine months before she came out of it. And of course I was worried, hey maybe she's never coming out of it. I don't know. Right. But it wasn't just that it was my right to not do it. It is wrong emotionally to think that we have the answers for others. Think about it this way. When I was doing all of these quick fixes for my sister, giving money, going to help finding a place for her to live, whatever, all of those things, what I was doing is I was listening the pain that would inspire her to change. You were saying you have a friend who calls and talks about the same crap, but never like ever changes and doesn't want to look at herself, just wants to keep talking. That's the same thing because you get off the phone with that friend and that friend feels lighter. She's like, wow, Lisa, I always feel so much better after talking to you. You get off the phone and you feel like someone barved to toxic waste on you because they did. So you're absorbing that energy. They feel better. So now the pain, the suffering, that would inspire them to find their own solution. We are literally lessening that likelihood of them doing that if we continue to be abandoned on this gaping wound that needs more than abandoned, right? But it buys more time. And as soon as I knew that me doing that was really colluding with her lowest self, I was like, oh yeah, I'm done. Like, I'm not colluding with the addicted part of her anymore. I have faith she can get it together. I really think that she can get sober if she wants to. But not if I'm here, you know, doing all the things so she doesn't feel the pain of her choices, right? These are choices. And I don't think addiction is a choice. I mean, I'm recovering myself. So it's no blame in that. But choices, right? You're choosing to stay. Wow, that's so strong. And where's the fine line between then obligation and a choice? Because I think a lot of us do feel the obligation and we don't realize it's a choice to then switch that. Well, part of it is question. You're downloaded blueprint question. Why you feel obligated? Is it because your mother major feel obligated? Because you were the oldest kid and you know, you take care of your family is everything. And if you don't do this, then you're wrong. I mean, you come from a very strong culture where family is all the things being great. It's like every country, culture, and family system itself has all of these cultural norms of the right way to be. You were indoctrinated into these beliefs, and maybe some of them stay, and maybe a lot of them don't. And you have a choice to, and you know, you yourself, you're a good example because you are an outside the box thinker. So people are like, you don't want to drive in kids, and you're like, because I don't come on to. You're able to own like, hey, I'm not less than because of that. But if you didn't have such a strong sense of self or hadn't done the work that you've done, that might make you feel ashamed. That might make you feel bad or you might have kids even though you don't want to. Like that's how strong and how deep those that what do we call it corrupted data runs in order to be lovable.

You must. those that what do we call it corrupted data runs in order to be lovable you must behave this particular way which is just simply not true. Yeah I definitely was told that growing up that I would end up a wife and kid you know having kids and I never really questioned it and so that where like the obligation I think came in was of course I'm gonna do kid, you know, having kids. And I never really questioned it.

And so that where like the obligation,

I think came in, where I was like, of course I'm gonna do it. Like, you know, my parents would be telling me my whole life. And till I decided that I didn't want it, and then I had to question that. I had to sit boundaries with my family because no matter how many times and I'm sure many people can relate, How many times you made a bad thing even say something out loud?

It took me time to get the courage to say it and then say it out loud. And even when I did, I still got people asking me. Even when I said I've decided to not have children, I would get my family and my dad and my mom saying, you know, oh, but, you know, life isn't, you know, worth living if you don't have children. And so I ended up having to set set that boundaries. Can you please stop trying to persuade me because it's taken away almost the power of me saying, I am not going to have it because it is insinuating you can now persuade me to change my mind. Right, but this is a boundary issue. So this is really it's an emotional and or a mental boundary issue. So you made a decision, you know how you feel, you know what you think, and you've been super clear about your boundary. And then you have, we call them repeat offenders who just keep on coming back to trample on that boundary. One more time, it's like the person who you say absolutely not, I don't want to do the thing. I'm not doing the thing. High to client who have this experience. And literally as she's leaving this party or wherever she was that she had to like, emphatically say no many times at this person, they were like, okay, so why don't you just take tonight? When you sleep on it and we'll talk tomorrow. She's like, oh my god, what part of, no, do you not understand? And that is a boundary violation because someone is forcing, attempting to wear down your know. That's about your violation. Change your mind. After you said, please don't, a boundary violation there too. When you think about what we learned, right? As little girls, what was it? Be good, right? Be a good girl, smile, turn that frown around, right? Don't be a troublemaker, don't stir the pot. And it's all about giving to others also, where if you're a good girl or if you grew up to be a good woman, you is embodyce femininity is all about self-sacrifice, all about self-sacrifice, which who wants that? That's not what it's all about, but yet it is what we learned. So, when you think about boundaries, think about them as a language. And you wouldn't feel bad if you weren't fluent in like Mandarin just because you really wanted to be right. You would know, oh, if I want to be fluent in Mandarin, here are things I need to do. Steps I need to take. People I need to guide. I literally need to step by step process. And you wouldn't expect to be fluent after doing that for like two hours. You would know it takes time. This is the same thing where we always start small with everything when it comes to boundaries is that we never tackle like the boundary bullies or the boundary destroyers in our life. It's like the low priority people where we just if you're someone who they get your order wrong when you go out and you oh normally would say That's fine. I'll eat it out of there. It doesn't matter Just send the friggin salad back and get the salad if you want right just just send it back Because it's about you when you think about what what are boundaries? These are like your own personal rules of engagement and we share them with other people because it tells them what's okay with us and what's not okay with us. And that means you must know your preferences, your desires, your limits and your deal breakers. Because those are the things that not only make up your boundaries, they also make up who you are. Your preferences, desires, limits, deal-breakers, Lisa, they're unique to you. Mine are unique to me. We are all so different, just like our fingerprints, right? Or our DNA. It's very similar. Most people don't know their own preferences, desires, limits, and deal breakers. People who identify as women in particular don't know because we're so busy, I can tell you whatever, when else's preferences are. Every person in my life, I know what they eat, but they're allergic to what they do and don't like all the things. You know, when I would have women come into my therapy practice and I would would say, okay, like in the beginning, like, so what brings you joy? That would just be one of the questions. And they, I would say honestly nine times out of ten, they would say, I don't know, I gotta be honest, and I really thought about it. I'm like, okay, well, I was time to think about it. Maybe we can think about it now because they're so busy becoming an expert on all the people in

their life. But all of that overgiving, over functioning, overdoing, that abandonment of self, that can only lead to one place, which I hate to say it's like a one-way ticket to bitter land, but it is. Because you will only be angry. Eventually, you can do it for a long time. And then you're pissed and think about all these moms, like I have friends who are like, oh, my mom is such a martyr blah blah blah. Well, you don't think that that mom when she was 20 was like, I can't wait to grow up and be a martyr. I mean, right? She didn't think that was going to happen. But it does. Because if you are self-sacrificing, because it's a way to keep people attached to you, because that's what codependency really is, that is driven by fear, not actually driven by love. So if you're kind of being counting the stuff that you do for everyone, if you feel that people are not appreciative enough

of all of your efforts, you wanna question, like, am I giving because I'm afraid if I don't, I'll be rejected, I'll be judged, I'll be kicked out of the pack, like what is the fear? Because if you're giving from love, you're not being counting, right? You're giving because you want to, not because you're like, I'm keeping score now, you owe me.

You know what I mean?

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