Ready to launch your business? Get started with the commerce platform made for entrepreneurs.

Shopify is specially designed to help you start, run and grow your business with easy customizable themes that let you build your brand.

Marketing tools that get your products out there. Integrated shipping solutions that actually save you time.

From startups to scaleups, online, in person, and on the go. Shopify is made for

entrepreneurs like you. Sign up for your $1 a month trial at Shopify.com slash setup.

Hello and welcome back to chasing excellence. Thank you so much for being here.

I'm having been joined by a new friend of ours, Jay Heinrichs.

Corey, Jay. Hi, it's nice to be with you. I'm really excited to have this conversation. You were introduced to us by a friend of ours, a friend of the show, Marcus Wilson, who last time, we had him on the show. I don't

even remember what we were talking about, but mid-sentence, he asked if we had ever heard of you. And we said, no, we haven't heard of Jay. And so as soon as we wrapped up that conversation, Marcus sent us and put us all on a text, and here we are. So thank you to Marcus for the connection. and anywhere that you feel like you want to talk about Marcus in this episode,

feel free if it ever makes sense.

But you, Jay, you are a New York Times bestselling author and speaker. Your latest book is called Aristotle's Guide to Self Persuasion, how ancient rhetoric, Taylor Swift, and your own soul can help you change your life. You've also written another book. You've written a handful of books called Thank You for Arguing. Another one called How to Argue with a Cat, which just as a title, I think, is brilliant. So thank you. I would love to kick things off with maybe just some defining some terms. You write a lot about rhetoric. Can you just tell us, you know, it's one of those words that I think people will hear

and I say, I have a vague understanding of what rhetoric is, but I don't know that much of us can

define it beyond that vagueness. Can you just give us a sense of like, what is rhetoric?

What do you look at when you're looking at or when you're studying or researching rhetoric?

Oh, it's my favorite question, because everyone should be studying rhetoric, either through

books or in classes.

Rhetoric is the power of words, and it's the power of persuasion.

It's 3,000 years old.

It's been studied in almost every civilization.

What we know of as rhetoric started in ancient Greece a few thousand years ago.

And it's really all about how to allow people to disagree without violence and come together

to accomplish things.

...