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The Good Fight

How to Persuade Your "Enemy"

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 18 September 2020

⏱️ 66 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Irshad Manji has a lot of experience in trying to persuade those who really don’t want to be persuaded. Early in her career, Irshad wrote two influential books that advocated for a reformed Islam. In conversations with religious conservatives around the world, she found that a combative style did not help her win adherents for her cause; instead, she started to acknowledge their views—before proudly arguing for her own. Now, Irshad runs the Moral Courage project, a pedagogical approach that hopes to make progress on contested issues like racism without shaming its participants. On the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk talks to Irshad about why we should not judge those who disagree with us; how we can hope to persuade them of our own positions; and why we should be more optimistic about America’s future than is now fashionable. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: goodfightpod@gmail.com Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0

If you are doing the exact same thing to your other that you are claiming they do to you and quote people like you, how is that progress? How are you actually overturning or eliminating more to the point a

0:18.4

rancid hierarchy that used to have white men at the top and everybody else below.

0:24.6

How are you eliminating hierarchy when you now have simply flipped it over

0:29.8

so that white men are off the bottom and everybody else above them.

0:34.8

All you are doing in that case is exchanging jerseys on the field.

0:40.8

But you're not changing the game. And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:45.0

Hi, I'm Emily Yaffi.

0:50.0

I'm on the board of advisors of persuasion and I wrote a story for them called a taxonomy of fear.

0:59.0

In it I wanted to look at the elements of cancel culture, how it has become so powerful and pervasive,

1:10.0

and how we can best perhaps fight some of those elements.

1:16.4

And my concern about it is that in an open society,

1:20.4

especially one going through the kind of upheavals and difficulties we are.

1:27.0

It's more important than ever that all of us feel able to openly discuss difficult complicated issues. We arrive at better solutions if people can

1:38.7

hear each other out. But on the right and the left there are forces trying to silence people, punish them for ideas, even words that become unacceptable.

1:54.0

As a person of the left, I wanted to address some of the things

1:58.4

that are happening on our side.

2:01.0

And people have raised the question in the time of Donald Trump, what does it matter that anyone on the left does?

2:08.0

We just have to get rid of him.

2:10.0

I agree we have to get rid of him.

2:12.0

But I think Donald Trump gives us a very good example of what happens

2:17.0

when people see something going very wrong on their side. We have Trumpism now because Republicans who surely

2:26.7

disagree with many of his policies, his tone, the way he speaks about people, other countries have failed to stand up.

...

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