How to Knock Out Super PACs with Lawrence Lessig

On with Kara Swisher

New York Magazine

Society & Culture

4.2 • 3.2K Ratings

🗓️ 5 February 2026

⏱️ 61 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Kara talks to Lawrence Lessig about his fight to end Super PACs — without passing a constitutional amendment or overturning Citizens United. The Harvard law professor and Equal Citizens founder was once the internet’s open-access evangelist. 19 years ago, he shifted his focus from intellectual property to institutional corruption, and since then, he’s become one of the country’s sharpest critics of money-driven politics. Kara and Lessig examine how the tech industry shifted from being led by largely apolitical or "libertarian-light" figures to becoming a sector that actively enables Trump; whether Democrats can capitalize on the Epstein controversy to persuade Trump's voters that he’s not the outsider he claims to be; how engagement-driven AI is tearing democracy apart; and why citizen assemblies are the way to repair it. Questions? Comments? Email us at on@voxmedia.com or find us on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Threads, and Bluesky @onwithkaraswisher. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

Click on a timestamp to play from that location

0:00.0	It's on.
0:02.0	Hi, everyone.
0:13.0	From New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network, this is on with Kara Swisher, and I'm
0:17.6	Kara Swisher.
0:18.8	My guest today is Lawrence Lessig.
0:20.6	He's a Harvard law professor,
0:22.0	a legal activist, the founder of equal citizens, a non-profit advocacy organization focused
0:26.9	on fighting corruption, gerrymandering, and voter suppression, and a former presidential candidate.
0:32.5	Lessig is currently spearheading a fight to get rid of super PACs. These political action committees can spend unlimited
0:38.9	amounts of money and raise unlimited amounts of dark money. But Lessig and equal citizens are working on a
0:45.0	case that would allow limits on contributions to super PACs. It hasn't gotten a lot of attention yet,
0:50.2	but if they win, it would drastically change how elections get funded in this country,
0:55.5	which is sorely needed.
1:00.5	And interestingly enough, before Lesz focused on getting money out of politics, he was famous for his legal activism around tech.
1:03.0	His work on net neutrality and open access made him a darling at the early Internet age,
1:07.2	but in the years since, he's become somewhat of an AI skeptic, and not surprisingly,
1:11.8	that evolution has not endeared him to the tech industry. Of course, that's why I'm interested
1:16.7	in talking to Larry Lessig. I've always thought he was brilliant. He used to do these amazing
1:20.2	presentations that would just be riveting about where everything was going. I learned a lot
1:24.5	from him. And I just think he is a big thinker around these issues and understands
1:28.7	the links between tech, power, money, and our democracy. Our expert question comes from Ellie Honig,
1:36.3	CNN's senior legal analysts, who was also a student of Larry Lessig. This is a wide-raging conversation,
	...

Please login to see the full transcript.

Previous episode | Next episode

Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from New York Magazine, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.

Generated transcripts are the property of New York Magazine and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.