Hello and welcome to The Upgrade, the podcast from the team at Lifehacker.com, where we help you improve your life one week at a time.

I'm Melissa Kirsch, editor-in-chief of Lifehacker. And I where we help you improve your life one week at a time. I'm Melissa Kirsch,

editor-in-chief of Lifehacker. And I'm Alice Bradley, deputy editor of Lifehacker. And today we're talking about personal hygiene with professional clean person Jolie Care. Jolie's been a cleaning

expert for Esquire, Deadspin, and the Hairpin, and she's also the author of the New York Times best-selling book,

My Boyfriend Barfed in My Handbag, and Other Things You Can't Ask Martha. Starting this week,

she'll be writing a column for LifeHacker's Parenting Vertical Offspring on How to Be a Clean Parent.

You never want to bleach out pit-stained white t-shirt,shirts say because you're actually just going to make those

yellow stains much, much, much worse. So, Alice, I have to say one of my deepest held fears is that

I smell bad and I don't know it. Well, this is an awkward way to tell you. I have to tell you that I think

this is everyone's deepest held fears. And it's, it is mine as well because, of course, right?

Like, what if, what if everybody knows the thing about you that they haven't told you,

but they're all talking about behind your back? And it's really negative. I mean, I've known

people, and I'm sure you've known them as well, who don't smell bad necessarily, but definitely

have like a kind of a scent to them. Yeah. Just they just give off

like a personal scent that that might be fine. It might be like a little bit, it might be a little bit

off-putting. Melissa is now smelling yourself. You smell fine. Are you sure? Yes, I'm positive. Okay. But,

or we smell the exact same way so I can't tell. I don't know. Right. It's so subjective, right? Right. It's a worrying topic. Also, like, perfumes that people put on that I don't know about you, but I can't put on perfume because even if I like the scent of something, I'm so worried that what if somebody else doesn't? Yes. And if you don't like the way someone smells, that means you don't want to be around them.

Yeah.

Which is pretty dire for maintaining relationships.

We all have that friend who smells and doesn't know it, right?

Yeah, a little bit.

Yeah.

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