I'm your homey Lisa Billio and welcome back to part two of this deep, deep conversation with author and pastor Stephanie E.K. Okavore about what it really takes to find the partner that's going to be you're happily ever after. And let's face it, that actually means to be around for more than 50 years or more which apparently happens to less than 5% of marriages right now today. Now if you want to be of that 5% that makes it past the 50 year mark, which you better freaking believe I want to then listen closely because Stephanie is revealing what you, yes you can do to be the best possible woman wife or partner in this relationship. Now we all know it takes two to tango my homie and matters a frickin' lot, who you choose, that's actually only 50% of the partnership, right? And so there are things that you can actually bring to the marriage and the relationship that's going to help make it work long-term. We also talk about what the actual commitment of marriage is and why marriage versus moving in together makes a difference. And look, that's way beyond just all the legal documentation of being married and signing on the dotted line and then she talks about what you need to do to be prepared before you say I do that will actually set you up for utter success so let's get right back into it right now guys I'm your host Lisa Billieu and welcome to a moving pact. We've now gone through the five things just to recap. It's he's a leader, he's loyal, he's a learner, he's a protector and he's a provide. Yeah. All right, those are amazing. Now I would love to talk to you about women and what women, what in order for us to really show up and be our best selves because she said is it an an interview you cracked me up by the way you were saying you're like yes ideally we're always a hundred percent and we're four and we've completed ourselves but the truth is I'm like 80 80 exactly so let's say we're trying to get to 80 percent complete before we meet apart what are the things that we as women should be looking at? Yeah, I think one is, are we willing to be submissive? And I know that it's a trigger word for many women. But going back to the conversation about leadership and for any institution to be successful, there has to be a clearly defined leader in the home. And so am I willing to be submissive and recognize submission is not weakness. And submission does not translate to chores. Sometimes we just think submission housewife, submission housewife. It's not that. Submission is literally that I recognize that in this marriage, the leader of this home

is my husband.

We're not always going to see eye to eye, but his position as the man is going to be the

tiebreaker.

So we're going to both share our opinions.

We're going to have relevant facts.

We're going to give relevant information.

We're going to talk it through.

We're not yelling at each other. We're going to have relevant facts. We're going to give relevant information. We're going to talk it through. We're not yelling at each other. We're having a conversation. But at the end of the day, we might be in two different, you know, lanes, but because I respect him as the man, I will trust his leadership in this situation, right? And it's not there many things because men, you know, a man who loves a woman would hear her out, after all is said and done, and he still makes a decision that is not aligned with how you see things, trust his heart for you. That's why it's so important that you get into a relationship that you're so confident is solid. Because I may not always agree with your reasoning, but I should trust your heart. Even if I don't trust your wisdom in this moment, even if I don't trust the decision that's being made, I should trust your heart for me. And that's why I can submit. It's something with kids and parents. The kid doesn't always understand, why can I go here? Why can I do this? Why can't I drive at 12? Like I could learn, I'm a fast learner, but if you trust that I love you, that I care for you, that I will put you before my own life, then you should trust that even if you don't understand, this is for you. And so for women, that is going to require a deep level of vulnerability, a deep level of transparency, a deep level of openness. And when, because even when you look at statistics, the statistics of women that have been abused is alarming. And so where there is a past history of abuse, being open is not my default. Being open to trusting your heart. Many times women are waiting for the rug to just be lifted beneath their feet. They're waiting for something to go wrong. You can't have that posture and still trust the heart of a person. And so for women, why it's important that we also heal, is because in order for me to truly and be fully invested in this, in order for me to really trust your heart for me as a man, as a husband, then I also have to be willing to be naked in this marriage. I also have to be willing to be all in. Not one foot in, one foot out, waiting to see if this is going to work, is this not going to work? No, I am all in. I have to be willing to remove the guards I've set over my heart to fully let you in. Because many times, while a woman may not even trust the heart of her husband, is that she still has all her walls, of what she's protecting from what she's been through. And so it's important that even before you get to that stage of marriage, that you talk to him, you know, if there was abuse in the past, if there was to whatever degree, you know, physical, mental, emotional, sex, whatever, that you share that with him. And you share the way it triggered you. You share the things that have that happened to you and watch how he becomes delicate with you. Because in that, then you're like, okay, I can trust you with my heart. The heart in the natural is a very delicate organ. And so I love it when we think about love, what we think about is the heart, because it's very delicate. If that is compromised, everything else dies. When there's no trust of love in the marriage, the marriage is already dead. It's just waiting for, you know, for what is, what is the tone and the state of the marriage, the voice is just technology, what happened years ago. That's why many times you will ask a divorce couple and they'll say, I've known for some time. Yeah, I've never had a divorce couple. Oh, the mind men are real, I just got the rules. We just got the divorce, no, they knew for some time. Because it dies early. And so in order for it to not get to that point, whatever is causing you to have barriers and you're guarded because you cannot be with a man who you're not willing to give your whole heart, like to open your heart to. At some point there's going to be tension and you will default to how you respond to trauma and

you will run. So it's like, this is not working. I'm done. I'm out. And so submission is more layered than we think. We think submission is just about being a housewife doing. No, we are bosses. It's not about that. that there is you, you allow love in completely and fully and you trust it. And the beautiful thing about love is that when you experience love in such purity, you respond to it. You have never seen someone who loves in such a pure way that doesn't cost you to respond. Even when you're watching something on social media, even when you're watching someone do a kind gesture that was so full of love, I mean, you may respond emotionally when you're crying, or you're just like, you know, I need to call this person, that it causes something in your action to shift. And so even how we begin to be more nurturing and more, you know, we start making sure like, people, you okay, is everything fine? It comes from an organic place, not manufactured. So being submissive is not about, let me look like a submissive wife. No, it first starts with a heart. I need to open up my heart to this person that I'm saying yes to. This person that I'm doing forever with, because when I can do that, when I can trust your heart for me, then it's easy to follow you, and it's easier to love you. I'm now paying attention to what you like, and I want to do this, and I want to do that for you, because I'm responding also to how you love me. And so she has to be willing to be submissive, not in a negative way, no, in a way that actually brings out wholeness from the woman. I'm not trying to protect myself. I'm not guarding myself. I'm not waiting for something to go wrong. I'm hopeful. I'm trusting. I'm going to allow myself to experience joy. Not just happiness, because happiness is tied to things Joy is a state of life, is a way of being. Is that you know what? I'm good. I feel safe where I'm at. And so I can always experience joy. So she has to be willing to be submissive. Social media and everywhere, even on YouTube, people wanna be binary, right? Because you get more clicks on YouTube. If you do a video that's taken a very strong stance in one side of it and people hate it, some people would love it and that's what gets viewed. But I think that is partly what is happening as part of the problem because these are the details that actually will make a difference to somebody's life and relationship. And when I think about the word submissive, it doesn't feel good, but I completely agree with your interpretation. And what I realized was, okay, there's a disconnect right now between how I feel. Confident, battles, strong, independent, I can take on the world and the idea of submitting to somebody else. And what I realized was though, to your point about the heart, it's like, okay, if I know that only one person can lead, you know, which one of us is it. And the submissiveness actually, there's so much strength in submitting, because I'm doing it consciously without feeling like, well, I'm weak, so I better submit. Exactly. I'm strong. Exactly. And I realize, oh, I want to submit to my husband. Yeah. And if God forbid, he abused that because there's a million worlds where the Bible then I'm using it. A thousand percent. I would rather try and see if he abuses the submission. Yeah. And then go, cool, he's not my person. Mm-hmm which we never want to do or not do it and not give over to a partner and like what you're saying, you feel those wars, you feel those barriers in between in them. So I love the idea of submission and then you've addressed kind of, I know in the Bible when you've spoken about the week of vessel and when I heard you say, I was like, what do you mean? Everybody, you mean the weak vessel. Come on, girl. But if you don't want actually explaining what that means. I would love to. I think there has been a lot of misrepresentation of even the heart of, when you look at it from a Christian perspective, the heart of God for women, where people feel like, oh women are like, you know, the bottom pole or something like that. But in marriage, it's so interesting because even even right before we get to the week of vessel, why how this is so sensitive and to the heart of God? Because so there's a The scripture that says, you know, husbands, do all with your wives with understanding and then it goes into, you know, for she is the weak of vessel, right? It doesn't say she's the weak vessel. It just says she's the weaker vessel. And then from a Christian standpoint, the order of marriage is that the husband is submitted to Christ and the woman is submitted to the man. So the Bible is not calling her like, oh, she's the only week one. No, you're both week. The husband is weak because of his vulnerability to leadership, right? Which is true Christ. The woman is weaker because of her vulnerability to the man. So people always feel like, why would the Bible say she's weaker? And they think that it's literal. Like she's being seen as someone who is weak. And the only reason that she's called weaker is because she's vulnerable to a mortal. Like, oh, I'm vulnerable to your leadership. But then again, you know, in the same Bible, there is a part where the Lord talks about that if the man dishonors his wife, this is where you abuse. Because submission is power under control, right? So if you abuse this power that is put under your leadership, it literally says, if you pray that your prayers would be hindered, so that God will not even hear your prayer because of how you're treating her. Because it's literally to say, there is this woman who is powerful has been put under your leadership. And you abuse the don't even pray to me because I will not hear you. Fix that. If you don't fix that, then things around your life will be chaotic. And do you think that there was a misinterpretation there in the past? Oh yes. And I think there was a misinterpretation because, think, again, it goes back to the why of people's behavior. In the past, when women were only were viewed as a role of how suive, take care of the kids, clean the kitchen, clean the house, when they're not seen through the lens of God who says, each and every one of you have a mighty purpose in me. There's a purpose you have on this earth that goes beyond what you know, right? Then the person interpreting the scripture is interpreting it through the lens of how I see women. So if I think a woman's place is only in the kitchen, in the home, and then I read a scripture that says, oh, the week of vessel, of course. Of course she's the week of vessel. That's why she should be in the home. So you're not even, you're not going beyond your understanding to see what the scripture is really talking about. And many people do that when they will choose one verse, eliminate the rest because they want to see it and they want that to validate how they think and how they feel, not actually reading what it's talking about. Thank you for clarifying that. Okay, so we've spoken about how to be an amazing woman as well. So what other things should we be thinking about in order to show up as like a freaking amazing partner? You know, I think for women also being a wise builder. And what I mean by that is women, women have such a, have, have, not even, I wouldn't recall the responsibility, but they have the power to build or tear down their home. And why I say a wise builder is there is a wisdom that is needed to build anything. You don't build without an insight, a drawing, or like, what are we building? What is the architectural layout? What is the design of this space? So when you think of a marriage, you don't go into a marriage without knowing how does this marriage work. that what is the design of how a marriage thrives.

And when a woman has the wisdom of that, she navigates her home through that wisdom because wisdom is the application of knowledge, right? So when she has the knowledge of, okay, this is what would allow this to thrive. This is how men think. This is what, you know, how they receive love at X, Y, and Z. How she navigates her home is the application of that wisdom. Mm. And that's why it's important that even for women, if a woman did not see a healthy marriage growing up, it's important for her to learn about what makes a marriage thrive. Because if not, your default would be what you saw. So it would be that toxic behavior, the toxic traits and toxic patterns. If you saw a healthy marriage growing up, you have already been embedded with a knowledge of, oh, this was healthy. Oh, I saw how mom did this. I saw how dad responded. I saw how they worked together. I saw the joy and the love that they had for each other. But if you didn't see that, then there is a need to be a student that even when you see people who have been married 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, hey, like what is the secret to your marriage? What are the things that you would advise your younger self about? And that is the need for community. That is why even I personally love the name of this podcast because it already gathers women together. It says, hey, let's gather. Let's gather here. That's the need for community when we can pour it to each other. We can talk to each other and say, hey, you're not crazy for thinking that that's normal. Oh, hey, look at it this way. Oh, let that go.

Pick your battles, right? And so there is a wisdom that a woman should seek after before even stepping into it because if not, the how she may respond would be according to what she has seen and known. And so the woman is a wise builder. I love that. I've never had wise builder before. And as you were saying, it's just thinking about we talk about the foundation, what's the foundation to your nature?

Build the foundation.

Exactly. We build the house. And it really is I think innate to women to be the foundation builders because even when I think I'm I'd love to hear your thoughts. But in my relationship like and pretty much anyone some Greek orthodox I've seen a lot of of couples do this, but it's always the woman that's making sure the mother-in-law is okay.

Making sure the system is... relationship and pretty much any one, because I'm Greek. Orthodox, I've seen a lot of couples do this,

but it's always the woman that's making sure

the mother-in-law is okay, making sure the sister-in-law is okay, checking in, they're the ones that when it's each star, you're making sure that you're together. Scheduling, my husband, I will literally schedule things for his own family with my husband to make sure. And so when I think about that being in a, and the importance of it, it's so, it never

thought of it in that way.

They're the wise builder.

I love that.

Okay, but also... with my heart, you like to make sure. And so when I think about that being an A and the importance of it, it's so,

I've never thought of it in that way.

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