This interview is a little bit different and it surprised me because I've got a full-time

booker and a producer and they do a lot of hunting trying to find the perfect guests for the show,

people who have a unique view on sales, people that will add to the audience to give you a different perspective. Now, a lot of you think,

oh, Brian, you talk a lot about selling SaaS or technology, but I sell something that's kind of

old school or can be viewed as a commodity. Well, everything can be viewed as a commodity until you change it.

We're going to talk a little bit about that today, but more is this, this journey that this

person went through.

And in the pre-call I had with him, I didn't realize that he had been such a long-term listener

and had taken both courses and has his team going through start the conversation,

get the meeting right now, and I've worked with some of them.

But that's not the point of the interview.

The point of the interview is to show this journey, kind of a 10 year or so journey in sales and then moving into leadership by default.

And we'll get into that as well because I maybe should do a show on what the right reason is to get into sales leadership.

If you're interested in that, go listen to the sales leadership show.

I talk exclusively about those issues. But what you'll get out of this show and this interview

is tremendous. The perspective of somebody who's been selling for 20 plus years has moved up

and built a business in what is thought of as a pure commodity,

printing. Can you think of any, printing's been around for hundreds of years? And how do you

differentiate? How do you win deals? How do you claw out the competitor and replace it with you? Not on price.

It's not going to be price. Let's get into this. I think you'll get a lot out of it. It was a lot of

fun doing it. I've been saying like this is one of those that you want to listen to over and over

again. Definitely, or at least download it and save it

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