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Capitalisn't

How The Democrats Lost Labor And Found Capital, with David Sirota

Capitalisn't

University of Chicago Podcast Network

Stigler Center, Chicago Booth, Socialism, Antitrust, University Of Chicago Podcast Network, Growth, 087667, Policy, Monopoly, Professors, Distortion, Research, Competition, Capitalisnt, Inequality, Promarket, Politics, Policymaking, Special Interest, Economics, Efficiency, Regulations, Chicago, Business, Markets, University Of Chicago, Kate Waldock, Capitalism, Friction, Bethany Mclean, Government, Macroeconomics, News, Education, Waldock, Georgetown, Microeconomics, Luigi Zingales, Zingales, Finance, Ucpn

4.5 • 584 Ratings

🗓️ 26 June 2025

⏱️ 50 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

The Democratic Party has become too focused on appeasing its billionaire donors and has failed to communicate its commitment to the working class, argues long-time political journalist David Sirota. The question moving forward, he says, is if the party can ever refocus its brand orthodoxy from prioritizing social and cultural issues to economic populism. Sirota joins Bethany and Luigi to dissect the outsized role of money in American politics and how it has rendered Democratic messaging incoherent by prioritizing wealthy donors over the public. He describes the current moment of populist rage against the Democratic leadership, as evidenced by polls, as a “long overdue” opportunity and offers an explanation for how economic populism became pivotal to winning elections – thus shedding light on how to reclaim the platform moving forward. He describes how former President Barack Obama's "selling out" to Wall Street and big banks became a “generational tragedy,” why Trump’s tariffs are more of a power grab than legitimate economic policy to revive manufacturing, and responds to Luigi’s hypothesis that populist rhetoric and policy are much easier from the right than from the left. Sirota is the founder and editor of the investigative news outlet The Lever, served as a speechwriter for Bernie Sanders, earned an Academy Award nomination for screenwriting the 2020 Netflix climate apocalypse drama Don’t Look Up, and has written three books, including one on how corporate interests have shaped American economic policy. Over the last four years, Capitalisn’t has interviewed conservative thinkers like Oren Cass, Patrick Deneen, and Sohrab Ahmari to understand how the political right developed a new platform after President Joe Biden’s victory in 2020. With this episode, we continue the same project with the left, by asking: What could be the economic basis for a new progressive platform?

Transcript

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0:00.0

I talked to a senator recently who put it this way.

0:04.5

Listen, if I want to put forward a bill dealing with economic inequality, the working class

0:10.4

and the like, all those special interests who want to stop what I want to do, all they have

0:15.3

to do is jingle their pocket, aka remind everyone that they have lots of money to make sure that other senators

0:25.2

don't come on board.

0:28.9

I'm Bethany McLean.

0:30.6

Did you ever have a moment of doubt about capitalism and whether greed's a good idea?

0:35.9

And I'm Luigi Zengalis.

0:37.2

We have socialism for the very

0:39.2

rich, rugged individualism for the poor. And this is Capital Isn't, a podcast about what is working in

0:45.9

capitalism. First of all, tell me, is there some society you know that doesn't run on greed? And most

0:51.8

importantly, what isn't? We ought to do better by the people that

0:54.9

get left behind. I don't think we shouldn't kill the capital system in the process.

0:59.9

Since the election, there's been an endless shriek of what went wrong coming from the Democrats,

1:05.8

a sampling, that it was a backlash to wokeness, border immigration policies, DEI,

1:10.4

contests over transgender acceptance, a general sense wokeness, border immigration policies, DEI, contests over

1:11.0

transgender acceptance, a general sense of social disorder, that Democrats abandon the working

1:15.8

class, that inflation is coming for incumbents globally, so just don't overthink things,

1:21.3

that the digital media ecosystem advantaged the right wing, that Republicans have just

1:25.7

proven more adapted communicating to 21st century

1:29.0

online followings. Everyone has a theory.

1:32.5

It's very important to understand what is the right version. In particular, it's important

...

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