How the "cult of success" created Trump and Musk - Obama’s speechwriter
Ways to Change the World with Krishnan Guru-Murthy
Channel 4 News
4.7 • 1.2K Ratings
🗓️ 26 June 2026
⏱️ 44 minutes
🔗️ Recording | Apple Podcasts | RSS
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Summary
From the White House situation room, to shaping the Obama administration's national security communication - few people have had a closer view of the forces shaping modern America than Ben Rhodes.
As Barack Obama's speechwriter and Deputy National Security Adviser, Rhodes helped craft some of the defining messages of the Obama era and played a central role in major foreign policy decisions, including the Iran nuclear deal. Now, in his new book All We Say, he argues that speeches reveal the enduring battle over American identity, who belongs, who holds power, and what kind of country America wants to be.
In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy talks to Ben about why Donald Trump succeeded where others failed, whether speeches still matter in the age of social media, the backlash to Barack Obama, the rise of populism, and the lessons history offers for today's political turmoil.
They also discuss Gaza, Israel, Iran, the future of the Democratic Party, and whether politics has lost the ability to tell a compelling story about where society is heading next.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | The problems are really big. They're kind of existential. Like inequality is rampant. |
| 0:05.6 | Artificial intelligence is coming. There's a sense in both our countries that I'm not sure that |
| 0:10.7 | the future is going to be as good as the past was. And, you know, politicians tend to be talking |
| 0:15.6 | to us in kind of these soundbites or they're very cautious about what they say. Or they're very |
| 0:20.5 | bombastic. If you're a Farage or they're very bombastic if you're a |
| 0:21.7 | farage or a Trump you know you're just you're telling people who to hate and who to blame and I think |
| 0:26.9 | people are actually ready to hear someone tell them some hard truths. |
| 0:33.7 | Hello and welcome to ways to change the world. I'm Christian Guru Murphy and this is the podcast where we talk to extraordinary people about the big ideas and their lives and the events that have helped shape them. |
| 0:44.4 | Today's guest sat at the heart of power during a defining era of American politics. |
| 0:49.6 | Ben Rhodes helped craft the speeches of Barack Obama that carried across the world, inspired millions, |
| 0:55.6 | and shaped America's sense of itself, what it's for, what its identity is. |
| 1:00.6 | As speechwriter and Deputy National Security Advisor, he was deeply involved in steering |
| 1:05.5 | foreign policy too, including the Iran nuclear deal, abandoned by Donald Trump in favor of war, and a ceasefire now that delivers much less. |
| 1:14.5 | He has become famous as an author and the co-host of Pod Save America. |
| 1:19.1 | And his new book, All We Say, Examines American History through 15 speeches. |
| 1:23.9 | It's struggle over national identity, the pendulum swing between progressive change and equality |
| 1:28.9 | and white supremacy and nativism. Ben, welcome. Great to be here. If you could change the world |
| 1:34.5 | with one fell swoop, what would you do? If I could change the world with one fell swoop, |
| 1:40.7 | I would, I say this as an American, |
| 1:47.4 | I would remove money from politics. |
| 1:51.0 | How about that? |
| 1:52.4 | I feel like we're living in an age of massive corruption |
... |
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