Carlo Rovelli: Are we sleepwalking towards nuclear war?
Ways to Change the World with Krishnan Guru-Murthy
Channel 4 News
4.7 • 1.2K Ratings
🗓️ 3 July 2026
⏱️ 48 minutes
🔗️ Recording | Apple Podcasts | RSS
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Summary
We're closer to nuclear catastrophe than at any point since the Cold War. That's the warning from theoretical physicist Carlo Rovelli.
Drawing on his new book “85 Seconds to Midnight”, Rovelli argues that fear, not strength, is driving a dangerous new global arms race. He explains why he believes humanity has forgotten the lessons of Hiroshima, why today's rearmament risks repeating the mistakes of history, and how artificial intelligence could make the threat of nuclear war even greater.
In this episode of Ways to Change the World, Krishnan Guru-Murthy speaks to theoretical physicist and bestselling author Carlo Rovelli about nuclear weapons, the morality of science, AI, international cooperation and why he believes humanity's greatest enemy is its own irrationality.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | We're one push of a finger away from total destruction by thousands and thousand, more than 10,000, I think 12,000 nuclear weapons pointing to one another. |
| 0:12.0 | And your country, my country are the first one to be destroyed. |
| 0:15.1 | Why do we want to go this way? |
| 0:16.5 | Isn't there anybody who think of the long term, who think rationally? |
| 0:20.3 | Humanity has one main enemy, which is its own irrationality. |
| 0:28.7 | Hello, and welcome to Ways to Change the World. |
| 0:31.3 | I'm Christian Guru Murphy, and this is the podcast where we talk to extraordinary people |
| 0:35.3 | about the big ideas in their lives and the events |
| 0:37.9 | that have helped shape them. It's a welcome back for my guest today. His second appearance on this |
| 0:43.2 | podcast, he's a man with a lot of big ideas. He has spent a lifetime challenging our understanding |
| 0:47.9 | of reality. He's one of the world's leading theoretical physicists, helping to develop some of the |
| 0:53.2 | boldest ideas about quantum mechanics, |
| 0:55.7 | gravity, space and time. Carlo Rovelli has become one of science's great storytellers. Through best-selling |
| 1:02.2 | books like The Order of Time and Helgeland, he has brought complex questions about the universe |
| 1:07.5 | to millions, arguing that reality is far stranger and more beautiful than we |
| 1:11.6 | imagine. But his new book, 85 seconds to midnight, is not about physics, but about its consequences, |
| 1:18.6 | specifically nuclear bombs. It is a physicist's argument against rearmament. |
| 1:23.7 | Carla Rovelli, welcome back. Thank you for having me. So if you could change the |
| 1:28.7 | world now, how would you change it? I would modify it so to avoid with what I think is |
| 1:36.1 | unfortunately likely direction we're going to, which is nuclear catastrophe. You think we're |
| 1:41.8 | heading there? Yeah, I think there's a good chance we're getting here. |
| 1:46.5 | The book is called 85 seconds to midnight, which is taken from the Doomsday Clock. |
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