Welcome to Untangle, the podcast from Muse, the brain sensing headband that helps you meditate and five-star app meditation studio.

I'm your host, Patricia Carpice, along with my co-host, Ariel Garten, every other week-ish.

We're hoping that your meditation practice is giving you what you need to stay more calm, grounded,

and resilient wherever you are. And if you're new to meditation or you want to deepen your practice,

now's a great time to check out the muse headband at choosemuse.com. Muse tracks your brain, heart,

breath, and body during meditation to give you real-time

feedback. Try it to track your sleep as well. Now, on to REO. So my amazing guest today is Dr. Rick

Doblin. You are all in for an amazing treat. Rick is the founder of Maps, the

multidisciplinary association for psychedelic studies. And he is really the guy who's making all of the

psychedelic studies that you may have been hearing about happen. He's a Harvard PhD in public policy, and he's here today to help us understand the value

of legalizing psychedelics, what one might gain from them therapeutically, and what they can

teach us about the mind and how it works. So welcome, Rick. Yes, thank you for having me. I'll just

say that you were a bit over-generous

in saying that I'm responsible for all the psychedelic that research is happening. I'm just

responsible for a portion of it. You've been an advocate in this space for a long time.

That's for sure. Yes, very sure. Since what, 1984? That's when Maps was formed around them?

Maps was in 86, but I started a nonprofit in 84 before Maps that was gathering the psychedelic therapy

community together to defend MDMA once the DEA moved to criminalize it, which they did in 84. But it was really in 72

when I was 18 years old that I decided to devote my life to becoming a psychedelic therapist

and helping bring back psychedelic research. And of course, going through my own psychedelic

therapy as well. So explain for the audience what the value of psychedelics is. Why are people so

excited about it now? Why is it coming to the forefront of our consciousness and conversations around

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