Welcome back to the art of accomplishment, where we explore living the life you want with enjoyment and ease.

We have a really special treat for you today.

We're sharing a podcast that Tara and Joe recorded with our friend Eric Torrenberg at the Modern Relationships podcast.

This episode is about Joe and Tara's relationship, which includes how they met and chose one another, the lessons they've learned along the way,

and how they've used marriage for their spiritual growth. We know that a lot of you have asked

about Joe and Tara's relationship over the years, and it's really one of my favorite relationships

of anybody have ever met in my life. It's fascinating, and it's been a dream to learn from them and to witness their relationship together.

So this is a lovely conversation that dives deep into that, and I really hope you enjoy it.

We could weaponize any good spiritual tool for communication.

We could make nonviolent communication super violent. Every one of our friends

told us we should get divorced. Every one of our friends told us that it was horrible and that we should,

and we were like just reenacting our parents' trauma on each other. There's something else to it

too, which is there was always, I can't speak for Joe, but for me, like a knowing,

like, yeah, this is shitty. All of this is shitty, and I am supposed to be here. So if that's the

truth, then what do I need to learn here? What tools? What help do we need to get? There's this great

story that one of our therapists told us that, you know, a guy was realizing he was blaming his wife for way too much stuff at some point

because he went to the bathroom and missed the toilet and he noticed his first thought was,

God damn, she moved the toilet.

If someone's triggering you, great, there's freedom there.

Whether you stay in the relationship or not, that is a source of freedom.

So much of our behavior is just pushing love away because we are so scared of the annihilation

that it will cause.

...