I've got nothing to hide.

Why do I care?

So the argument goes.

Well, first, we all have secrets.

So that's nonsense.

And secondly, that's such a privileged position.

Maybe a lot of people listening don't have life and death secrets.

Maybe they don't.

But if you're a journalist in vast parts of the world or an activist or just a human in Mexico or lots of other places,

you do have secrets. You're trying to keep secrets away from people who want to harm you.

You're trying to keep secrets away from people who want to harm you. Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us. I'm your host, Paris Marks, and this week my guest is Anthony Lowenstein. Anthony is an independent journalist who's written for The New York Times and The Guardian, and he's also the author of The Palestine Laboratory, how Israel exports the technology of occupation around the world.

In recent years, we've seen a number of human rights organizations releasing reports

saying that Israel is an apartheid state, human rights watch and amnesty international,

as well as Israeli human rights

organizations like Yeshtin and Betzelam. Those reports provide even further context on kind of

the unacceptable situation that we know is continuing in Israel, where the Palestinian people are

under occupation by the Israeli government and the Israeli military and have been for a very

long time. And we saw that yet again last week with another Israeli raid on the Janine refugee

camp in the occupied Palestinian territories, where homes were leveled, hundreds of civilians

were injured, and at least 12 Palestinians were killed in that attack by the Israeli military. And this is just one example of

the brutality that Palestinians continually experience under the occupation. So in this conversation,

Anthony wrote this book, the Palestine Laboratory that looks at how Israel develops this technology

...