That's a huge existential crisis for Western car makers, you know, the Fords, the GMs, the Volkswagen,

that have been in China, assuming that they'd be just buying oil and gas vehicles to Kingdom

come.

That's not what's happening anymore because if the transportation sector is being rapidly transformed.

Hello and welcome to Tech Won't Save Us, made in partnership with The Nation Magazine. I'm your host, Paris Marks, and this week my guests are Kate McKenzie and Tim Sahey. Kate is an adjunct fellow at Macquarie University and has written for the Financial Times in Bloomberg Green. Tim is co-director of the Net Zero Industrial Policy Lab at John Hopkins University. They're both the co-writers of the Polycrisis newsletter from Phenomenal World. In recent months, we've been looking a lot at the geopolitics of technology

and, you know, this new world that we're headed into, where the United States is trying

to restrict certain technologies that different countries can access, where China is obviously

moving ahead and developing technologies that are competitive with the United States,

if not even getting ahead of it in certain sectors. And that has much broader implications

just beyond the United States and China or how particular countries are responding. So I wanted

to have Kate and Tim on the show because they have been writing a lot about those broader

repercussions. And in this conversation, we dig into the kind of model that China is building,

where it is electrifying its economy, potentially reducing its dependence on oil imports,

and what that means for not just the broader Chinese economy, but a potential development

model that other countries

might be able to follow or at least take some lessons from as they seek to carve out their

own kind of sovereignty, independence, reduce their dependency on say, the United States or other

countries. We also look at what the decisions of the United States in this moment are going to

mean for its place in the world and its ability

to actually properly compete with China, keep up with China, and try to maintain its position

in the world system and whether that is even going to be possible. And then kind of the broader

question of what this means for many other parts of the world, right? Parts of the global

...