Hey everyone this is Kurt Franklin with the leading Saints podcast and this is another

clip of the upcoming Liberating Saints virtual summit which starts on September 10th

that's like next Tuesday if you're listening to this the same day that I'm publishing it

and it is going to be

phenomenal. Like the more I do these interviews the more I'm like oh my goodness I can't

wait to share this one and this interview with Jeff Sturer is no exception.

Jeff Sturer is a therapist down in St George Utah,

former Bishop, usually when the church produces

anything around the topic of struggles with pornography, You can typically see Jeff's face pop up as he's

an expert in helping many, many individuals overcome the struggle with pornography and he shows why in this

clip so here's Jeff the clip register at leading scenes dot org

slash liberating rating. If you, let me put it this way, if you don't understand shame, then you're going to be very

superficial in disclosures.

But if you understand shame, which is as old as Adam and Eve, there has to be a very direct

acknowledgement of what happened and what your pardon it was.

And we see that played out in the Garden of Eden. There's a very direct accounting for what happened and you have to be able to take ownership of that. So for example, you might have somebody who looked at pornography and you can say, okay, well, I looked at

pornography, okay, well, all right, well, let's just work on this and get you some healing,

but the shame might be embedded in one of those extra questions.

The shame may be embedded in, I looked at pornography

in my grandpa's house when I was, know supposed to be there helping with something you know and so maybe it's that this I'm in my grandparents house who I respect and I use their computer and you see what I'm saying? Like that detail could be loaded with so much

shame that changes the way they see themselves as a person and if they can't wrap the words

around that then name that the pornography part on a scale of 1 to 10 maybe you know maybe a 7 or 8 in terms of severity but the shame's like an 11.

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