Building a coffee business?

Serving the best Americano in town is up to you.

But winning back time and growing your business, leave that to sum up.

Take orders and payments anywhere with the new sum up terminal.

Turn occasional customers into regulars with a free loyalty program.

And with the sumup point of sale system, you'll always know when you're running low on your best-selling blends.

Visit sumup.co.uk to learn more.

This is John Batson, conversation with Douglas Boyne, his new book, Claudia,

about the richest woman in Caesar's time in Rome,

who was persecuted, prosecuted, humiliated, attacked by the most famous lawyer of

Caesar's time, Cicero, in the Roman Senate,

and why? And when did it happen? And what did it mean about the end of the republic and the

beginning of the empire? The people from Shakespeare's plays about Julius Caesar and

Cleopatra and the Roman Empire are all in this drama,

but this is the history of it. Cicero was obsessed with Claudia. Who was she? Why was he

obsessed? Who was Cicero to carry a grudge into a prosecution of a woman who was very, very wealthy?

Douglas gives us the story of what we know and mentions the pieces we don't have.

Clodia, richest woman in Rome, the time of Caesar and the revolution and the civil war

and the rise of the empire.

Much more of this tonight.

We really don't, and it's hard to admit that we really don't.

Plutarch, who was writing much later and, you know, always has the colorful vignettes that we expect to find in a Shakespearean play,

...