It's Depression Mode. I'm John Moe. I'm glad you're here. This episode is not about death. It's about life.

The life that you continue to live because you, after someone close to you has died.

It's an episode about how we try to make sense of things at a time when nothing makes much sense.

We call this time grief.

I first got in touch with Megan Devine after taping the interview with Stephanie Whittle's Wax

that we aired in our previous episode.

Stephanie and I had talked about seeing our brothers, her brother Harris, my brother Rick,

struggle with addiction and seeing them die way too young.

Megan Devine is a practicing psychotherapist and specializes in grief.

She's the author of the nonfiction book,

It's Okay That You're Not Okay, and a new journaling workbook that just came out called How to Carry

What Can't Be Fixed. I reached out to Megan because in the interview with Stephanie, the one from

last week, I had a real lack of words to describe grief and loss.

The problem I always run into is that in my experience, and for other people that I've spoken with about this,

grief feels like chaos, like you're not in the world as you knew it anymore.

Nothing works. Grief feels like, and I'm going to use

hyperbolic language here, going crazy, losing your shit. It feels like insanity.

Is grief in some form a form of insanity oh that's a really good question and i think we could

totally nerd out on the the etymology of insanity. Sure, yeah.

Right?

But, I mean, we don't have to nerd out that fully just to look at, like, the definitions of,

air quotes, insanity have changed depending on science, depending on the oppression of women,

...