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Stay Tuned with Preet

Giving Up Is Unforgivable (with Joyce Vance)

Stay Tuned with Preet

Vox Media Podcast Network

Society & Culture, Politics, Government, News

4.832.3K Ratings

🗓️ 23 October 2025

⏱️ 66 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

How can we protect our democracy from President Trump’s overreach? Joyce Vance is a former U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama, a law professor at the University of Alabama, author of the popular Substack newsletter Civil Discourse, co-host of the #SistersInLaw podcast, and Preet Bharara’s co-host on the CAFE Insider podcast. Now, she’s a published author. She joined Preet for a live conversation organized by the 92nd Street Y to discuss her new book, Giving Up Is Unforgivable: A Manual for Keeping a Democracy.  Then, Preet answers your questions about George Santos’s pardon and the U.S. military attacks on ships in the Caribbean. In the bonus for Insiders, Joyce answers questions from the live audience. Join the CAFE Insider community to stay informed without hysteria, fear-mongering, or rage-baiting. Head to cafe.com/insider to sign up. Thank you for supporting our work. Show notes and a transcript of the episode are available on our website.  You can now watch this episode! Head to CAFE’s Youtube channel and subscribe. Have a question for Preet? Ask @PreetBharara on BlueSky, or Twitter with the hashtag #AskPreet. Email us at [email protected], or call 833-997-7338 to leave a voicemail. Stay Tuned with Preet is brought to you by CAFE and the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

From Cafe and the Vox Media Podcast Network, welcome to stay tuned.

0:06.0

I'm Preet Bharara.

0:07.9

So whether we're reading more serious books about democracy in our book clubs or talking about it, family gatherings, I think Thanksgiving is going to be lit for a bunch of families this year.

0:19.8

That's something that we can all do.

0:25.7

That's Joyce Vance. As many of our listeners will know, her resume is long. She's a former

0:31.8

U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Alabama, a law professor at the University of Alabama,

0:36.2

a senior fellow at the Brennan Center,

0:38.4

author of the popular Substack Newsletter Civil Discourse, she's the co-host of the podcast Sisters in

0:43.5

Law, and also, of course, my co-host on the Cafe Insider podcast where we unpack legal issues

0:49.2

making the headlines. Now, Joyce is also a published author. She's out with her first book, Giving Up is Unforgivable, a manual for keeping a democracy.

0:59.2

Earlier this week at an event organized by the 92nd Street Y in Manhattan,

1:03.1

Joyce and I sat down to talk about the book, the state of our democracy,

1:06.7

and what all of us can do to bolster the rule of law.

1:09.6

Then I'll answer your questions about George Santos's pardon

1:12.0

and the U.S. military attacking ships in the Caribbean.

1:15.6

That's coming up. Stay tuned.

1:21.6

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1:38.9

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1:45.6

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