Francis Chan has been a pastor for over 30 years. He's a New York Times best-selling author of

several books, including Crazy Love, Letters to the Church, and Until Unity.

Francis and his wife, Lisa, have been married for nearly 30 years, and they've co-authored You and Me Forever.

Currently, Francis is in Northern California.

He's teaching and discipling the next generation

of pastors and leaders.

Francis, thanks so much for joining me.

Hey, it's great to be with you, Kirk.

Francis, we've been friends for quite a long time.

I remember when you were a young pastor in a three-piece suit in Seamy Valley, California,

in that little bungalow that started out as Cornerstone community, I believe.

Yes, I remember that.

The first day I started, I went out in a normal shirt,

and my wife's like, you're not going to wear a tie.

My grandma is going to be so mad, and so I went on and put on a tie

and I wore a tie for a couple of years.

That's right.

And now you're doing so many things that challenge me and so many others of us.

I want to talk with you a little bit tonight about theology.

You've thought deeply about these things and particularly to talk about the Trinity and the nature of God.

So if I were to ask 10 people, who is God or what is God? What is he made of? And I can get 10 different answers

depending on who I'm talking to. So with so many people speaking for God, it's no wonder that we

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