Welcome back to plenary session, the podcast at the intersection of medicine, oncology, and health policy.

I'm joined by Dr. Timothy Olivier. He should need no introduction. He's the great guest of the show and a popular audience favorite because Timothy inserts common sense and dignity. He brings it back to this show.

Timothy, it's great to see you

hi veni nice for the kind of introduction i think you are you're you're going a bit too far but

yeah yeah i love being i love being on the show yeah what are we talking with you yeah so

today is a malignant book club i think people are waiting for the book club.

Now it's a few months, maybe a few, yeah, a few weeks, a few months.

What chapter did we leave off on?

So now I think it's really the key part, solutions.

So it's episode nine of our, you know, our different videos.

And it's chapter 13, how should cancer drug development proceed?

So maybe to, I remember in the, because I, you know, I prepare this book club, so I read it again.

And you start with an experiment and you wrote about that about how bad the system is currently.

And you made some calculation how one drug costs to, you know, to make, to run a trial,

what is the average revenue for one drug, and you make a kind of

experiment if we test a hundred drugs with no efficacy, with no activity, what, I mean, how the

system is currently incentivized? Can you talk about this experiment or you want me to talk about it?

I think I remember it.

So this was a paper we published in Nature Reviews clinical oncology called

Low Value, something about low value approvals, incentivize bad practices, something to that effect.

But the gist of the argument was the following.

This FDA has made it very clear that you can get drug approval,

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