Hi, this is Christopher Gafford.

I'm at work putting together a new narrative series set to drop in the fall.

In the meantime, I wanted to reintroduce you to the Trials of Frank Carson,

the story of a criminal defense attorney who was put on trial for murder.

Thanks for listening, and please rate and subscribe.

Music Thanks for listening, and please rate and subscribe. This is Chris Gofford.

I'm the writer and host of the Trials of Frank Carson, and this is the first of our bonus episodes.

I'm here with Los Angeles Times Deputy Metro editor Steve Clow, who's been my editor at the LA Times for the last six years and is the editor on this project. Hello, Steve.

Hey, Chris. How you doing?

Doing great. I'm excited to talk to you about the first episode of The Trials of Frank Carson, which is the third podcast we've worked on together.

We did Dirty John a few years ago, and we're

learning as we go. I know you also did Man in the Window about the Golden State Killer

with Page St. John in 2019. And you and I have been mostly print journalists for most of our

careers, so this has been a journey for both of us. There are countless podcasts out

there now, many more than there were when we started doing this. And one of the things that I think is

different about the ones that we make is the emphasis on the reporting and getting the reporting

exactly right, which is one of the reasons that these

take a long time to do. I think this is the third one we've done in four years. They do take a

long time to do, but they're really rewarding and I hope fun and interesting to listen to. Why don't

we just dive in? Episode one has a lot of really fascinating moments in it,

and it introduces us to this crazy case, one of the longest murder trials in California history,

and one that did not get a lot of attention outside of Stannis-Loss County. Your last two podcasts have been based in Orange

...