When we were talking about the carnivore diet, I remember you were in some video, you know,

versus you versus carnivore thinking about it.

And you talked a lot about the soft endpoints and hard end points. And I find it really interesting that, you know, you hear all these people who, and you see them. Like, I've seen people on the carnivore diet who look jacked. They're like muscles are like protruding and they're getting like beefier. And they just are saying they feel so good. I'm off this medication, my diabetes is good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you said softened points first, hard end points.

Yes.

Can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah. medication, my diabetes is good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you said soft endpoints first hard end points.

So can you talk about that a little bit?

Yeah, the word soft endpoint, we just, we mentioned earlier today that you're looking

something that like you lost weight, your sugar went down, your triglycerolid improved,

your cholesterol improved, those are markers, those are soft endpoints, which are short

term.

Right. Hard end points you need, which are short term. Right.

Hard end points you need decades to get to to look at.

Would cancer be a heart end point? Yes. Heart disease. Stroke. Those are things. And these are hard end points. And these are hard end points of the carnivore. The reason why we give person a cholesterol lowering drug that lowers cholesterol, because we suspect it's going to reduce risk of heart attack. We don't know for sure if lowering cholesterol with a drug is going to have the same effect that lower and cholesterol with a diet.

So maybe lower and cholesterol with a drug is not going to reduce risk of heart attack. We don't know for sure if lowering cholesterol with a drug is going to have the same effect that lower and cholesterol with a diet. So maybe lower and

cholesterol with a drug is not going to reduce heart attack risk. It looks like it would, but we need to see the heart end point. Oh, because you're saying the soft end points there, sure, but you want to see the long term effect. We don't know for sure until we see a long term studies. For sure. So we have people advocating these diets, distorting the literature, and trying to ignore the huge amount. We're talking about thousands of studies involving tens of thousands of researchers, looking at hard endpoints with people following various diets for decades and studying them. And they're saying, oh, they always look to some reason why they just throw the study out. We don't want to consider that any credence.

So they're just about excluding.

But it's so easy to say that for the record. You're like, what about this study? And I've heard so many people in their movement just be like, that doesn't make any sense. And you're like, it makes a lot of sense. And yeah, it's just. They just want to exclude the reality. Yeah. You have people in politics excluding reality. You can distort the evidence. It's crazy. And they have different beliefs because they want to believe what they want to believe. I mean, we see it in news outlets all the time. Same topic, very different perspectives and perceptions of whatever you choose your reality to be. And people don't know who to trust. And according to me, they shouldn't trust anybody.

Okay. Can I just tell you how funny this is? Because I was thinking about it in the shower. I'm like washing my hair and I'm like, I love the vegetarian diet. But he's my dad. Like, what if you were my dad and didn't and like I didn't agree with it or like how would I know it's right in my head and I'm'm like, I'm wondering like why I'm so eager to trust you. I thought about this because I love the diet.

I'm passionate about it. I work with you.

And I think my view on it is you tell us to eat whole fruits and vegetables like whole foods, you know, without pesticides, organic.

This stuff makes sense to me, obviously,

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