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We from the beginning I knew this program was my new controversial. I knew that before it started

that we went down that road sooner or later this would become a huge issue. I did not

imagine that it would remain such a third rail in American national security and

just spread out of politics five years after the program was unequivocally

and publicly ended. It has had a remarkable legs. I mean I have no doubt I have

no doubt been that what the first paragraph of my obituary, John Rizzo,

approved a controversial CIA program post 9-11 to interrogate suspects that

it programed as many observers remarked his torture. I'm Benjamin Wittes and

this is the law fair podcast April 19, 2014. That was former CIA acting general

counsel John Rizzo writing his own obituary from Pepperdine University. Rizzo

has a new book out. He probably read something about it. I have a review of it

up on law fair today. The book is called Company Man. I caught up with Rizzo at a

conference at Pepperdine earlier this month. We talked about the book. We talked about

the persistence of the interrogation controversies. We talked about the endless

cycle of the CIA's being asked to do unpleasant things and then help to account for

doing them and yes we talked about the NSA controversies as seen through the

Schadenfreude of a CIA lawyer. It's the law fair podcast, episode 71, a

conversation with John Rizzo. What made you want to write a book? It's not

...